Small LH Fan always on | FerrariChat

Small LH Fan always on

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Jagbuff, Dec 5, 2013.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Jagbuff

    Jagbuff Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,267
    Site of US F1 Race!
    Full Name:
    Franck
    I am trying to solve an electrical gremlin on my 400iA. The small LH fan on the engine side of radiator is always "on" once the ignition is turned on regardless of temperature. The relay is not stuck (tested and switched it out) and the electrical system appears sound. What is the source that "excites" this relay, is it a temperature sensor? Where is it located?
     
  2. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
    1,286
    San Leandro, CA
    Full Name:
    Bill Henley
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the same thermostatic switch controls all three fans, even though each has its own relay. My guess is somebody hotwired this fan. You might experiment by pulling the relay entirely and turning on the ignition switch and see if the fan runs.
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,781
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    +1 (or, at least, I'd bet on that too)

    They completely mixed-up the relay descriptions, the item names, and/or the wiring itself on your OM schematic, but the way the wiring is drawn (which I judge as the most reliable ;)):

    if water temp hot (coolant thermoswitch closed) = all three fans run (AC "on" or "off")

    if water temp cold (coolant thermoswitch open) and AC "on" = one front fan and the rear fan run.

    if water temp cold (coolant thermoswitch open) and AC "off" = no fan runs

    Each motor does have a separate relay, but the way that two of the relays have their outputs connected together, one front fan and the rear fan are wired together (so since you report the rear fan is running independently = must be some sort of modification). Any obvious "improvements" to the plumbing? If the rear fans is always running, when the coolant temp is cold and you turn on the AC, does one of the front fans start running?
     
  4. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Steve
    I do not believe the pull fan on the left side runs with the AC, instead the two push fans on the right side run with the AC. The AC condenser does not extend to left side of radiator and would make no sense to run. I spent a lot of time checking when I re-wired my fans which still use the standard control logic just no power thru the relay panel (documented elsewhere in this forum).
    Ken
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,781
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Ken - I was only reporting what is shown, and described, in the 176/79 OM (for a 1980 400iA) -- your 1984 would use the 250/82 OM so may be completely different (it definitely has a more user-unfriendly schematic that is also a poor scan quality in the online copy so I'm not checking ;)).
     
  6. Jagbuff

    Jagbuff Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,267
    Site of US F1 Race!
    Full Name:
    Franck
    #6 Jagbuff, Dec 12, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
    Thank you for everyone's input.

    Upon removing the relay the fan stopped which indicated that it was getting permanently excited. I went upstream looking for the thermo switch, and after some rooting around I found to (my surprise) that it had been disconnected and the wires taped it together to close the circuit.

    I'm not exactly sure why this was done, may be the thermo switch is nonfunctional and the fan never kicks in. Anyway I plugged the wires back in and the fan stopped. I haven't had time to let the car warm up and see whether or not the fan will cycle on. The switch is a cheap part and will replace when I service the car. Since it is cold (even in Texas) I'm not too worried about overheating at this time.

    I am not that familiar with the K-jet system - I assume it uses a temperature sensor as an input for cold starts - correct? I know the warm-up regulators were rebuilt 2 to 3 years ago, and while the car starts very well when cold within 30 seconds its idles very very rough and stalls if not given any throttle. This is particularly true with the current cold temperatures. Is this thermal switch part of the system?

    THX
    Franck
     
  7. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
    1,286
    San Leandro, CA
    Full Name:
    Bill Henley
    Quick rundown on the K-Jet: mixture control is handled by a plunger moving up and down in a bore in the center of the fuel distributor. Moving up in the bore increases the flow of fuel to the injectors, moving down decreases it. Airflow in the induction path causes the plunger to rise in the bore. How high it can rise in response to a given level of airflow is controlled with hydraulic pressure applied to the top of the plunger. It is gasoline itself that the system uses for a hydraulic fluid. Fuel pressure at the top of the plunger is bled off to the warmup regulator ("WUR"). The WUR has a bimetal strip that closes a valve in the WUR when an electric current is applied to the strip and it warms up. This increases the pressure on the top of the plunger, which reduces the amount of upward movement as the bimetal strip warms up. This leans out the mixture. This has the same effect as an electric pull-off of the choke plate on a carburetor.

    One possible cause of rough running 30 seconds after starting, in cold-ish weather, is that the mixture is leaning out too quickly. The way to check if it's the WUR doing this is a fuel pressure test. I have posted up a thread with photos from when I did this. I monitored fuel pressure in the line to the WUR as the bimetal strip warmed up. If you find this thread, be sure to read it all the way through, because most of my "how-to" threads have mistakes in them that other members then correct. Reading all the way through, you will get the corrections too.
     
  8. Jagbuff

    Jagbuff Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,267
    Site of US F1 Race!
    Full Name:
    Franck
    Thanks Bill for the clarification, I gained quite a bit of experience with the K "E" Jet (thanks Steve M) as my TR had me going nutty b/c of a loose connector. The K-Jet looks similar, with a mechanical warm up but no feedback loop.
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,781
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    How typical! ;) Don't mean to be Debbie-downer, but, if the coolant thermoswitch is closed (warm) = all three fans should be running. Since you didn't report that F, you must have some other faults/modifications somewhere too...
     
  10. Jagbuff

    Jagbuff Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,267
    Site of US F1 Race!
    Full Name:
    Franck
    Yes, you are correct, the reason is that I have them out of the car at this juncture, one had bearings dying and was squealing big time - looking at putting a modern SPAL with 2700 cfm instead left over from my 456. Doing very short runs at this time trying to sort out all the little niggles.
     

Share This Page