Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

I explained that comment you have focused on many pages ago. There were several press conferences for supercars held in the halls at Geneva that day - Pagani with their Huayra, Lamborghini with the Veneno, Ferrari with the LaFerrari, and McLaren with the P1, and probably others that were less noteworthy. Lamborghini had the 11:00am time slot, McLaren's Press conference was held at 11:15am and Ferrari was 30 minutes later at 11:45am. I pity any journalists who had to try and run from one to the next.

Anyway, Ron was certainly not suggesting with this comment that the P1 would for always and forever be the fastest car man would ever see, he was simply saying that of the cars journalists would be presented with on that day, the P1 would be the fastest. To think Ron is implying something different is quite silly. Even McLaren will eventually produce a car that is more capable than the P1.

>8^)
ER

 

What could be more clear?? You can't be that effing stupid. How about announcing their supposed time??

Eric, you really need to take a step back. You are coming off as poorly as a White House Press Officer... You sound like a paid mouth piece.

Seriously,... are you on McLaren's payroll???


Oh and that stupid smiley... what ever.

 

I don't think it matters what I think. Just like (and I am not trying to be rude when I say this) I don't think it matters what you think either.

The Ring lap time is one of the more pointless statistics to use for comparing vehicles for reasons I have already stated. It may be seen as an indicator of performance, but given the obvious potential and historical precedent for gaming one's results, it is certainly not the final decider on whether one of these cars is better than the other. That's one of McLaren's reasons for keeping their cards close to their chest at this point and why all this debate over "did the P1 or didn't the P1" is so funny to me.

Really, I doubt we will see Ferrari doing anything like what we have seen so far from Porsche or McLaren. And doesn't that make it worse if they don't even make an attempt - serious question? Or do they get a free pass because they have never done it before with one of their production cars and haven't suggested they will with LaFerrari either? I can see people arguing both sides on this.

Anyway, when and if they do something more than test there (which I would always argue has real value for the development team) then I'll certainly let you know what I think since you seem to care.

>8^)
ER

 

Breathe... it is just the Internet.

Seriously not on McLaren's payroll btw. In the interest of full disclosure, they did pay for my airfare to Paris in September 2012 so that I could witness the worldwide unveiling of the P1, but that's the only "compensation" for my enthusiasm for the brand that I have benefited from. It was an awesome gesture, but if what I had found there didn't interest me I am frank enough to tell you the truth about that and anything else.

>8^)
ER

 

A clumsy attempt to avoid my actual question. Congrats.

Also, please feel free to post a quote from Luca where he told the waiting press that LaFerrari would "break all the records" at the ring.

Two companies set themselves targets at the ring, one proved to us that they met them, the other made a promotional video and made yet more claims.

Judge them accordingly.

 

Thank you.

We could play a game of hypotheticals all day long, but much like McLaren and their choice to sidestep the practice of publishing a specific Ring lap time, I'm choosing not to participate in your ruse. #ohwell

The other points you made have all been well covered in the previous pages of this thread and my responses don't require repeating as they have not changed. Feel free to review if you need to, but I think my position is pretty clear and so is yours.

>8^)
ER

 

I concur.

Much like Mclaren, you have zero evidence to support your claims, which you have continued to repeat regardless.

I will judge accordingly and I have no doubt others will too.

 

Quite the contrary - we both have evidence (theirs much better than mine) we are just not choosing to show it to you.

Again, I don't lose sleep over whether people believe me, and even if they don't as I am quite confident in the statements I have made I will offer no apology for them.

>8^)
ER

 

For somebody that has such a disregard for what people think you sure do repeat yourself regarding P1 and your claims.

It really is getting an air of 'thou doth protest too much' in all honesty.

 

I am engaging in conversation. If you don't like what I am saying then stop directing your comments towards me and if you really can't resist then the message board does have an Ignore function that works quite well.

Enjoy your weekend.

>8^)
ER

 

10s faster then P918...if so that is impressing

 

the 647 is not the p1 time mate

 

A comp'd ticket to Paris is a pretty nice free-be. I'm sure you were given access not available to the average member of this site.

Never been given a free shirt along the way? No swag / collectables not available to anyone by simple request? I suspect you have a bit of P1 memorabilia lying around...

Bottom line, I think we can both agree there is a "relationship". I am not trying to imply you are "bought",... but that you are a special friend.

With all that said... I do value your contribution and insight. I just think you've come off like a PR rep on this "ring time" issue.

Best wishes!

Simon

 

To answer one of your questions Peleton I don't think it makes it worse that Ferrari never tried. Few people are truly taking issue with the basic idea behind Mclaren's statements. While the nurburgring may be a wonderful track it is not the end all and be all. Not to mention that results can be manipulated easily with the independent and clandestine nature of most manufacturer tests.

At this point however, that isn't the point. Ferrari made no claim and has made little effort to ever demonstrate anything at the ring. Hell, and independent test showed that the Enzo could match the Carrera GT so no doubt a factory effort would have been fairly easy arrange and publicize. They simply chose not to.

The issue is that Mclaren came out guns blazing, shooting their mouth off about the car including its nurburgring performance. So it is expected that they prove it. They had no responsibility to run at the ring and honestly it says little that porsche could beat them there.

This isn't even about how fast the P1 is for the most part. It is likely very close the 918 at the ring either way and likely faster on more traditional tracks.

It simply reeks of saving face to make a claim of performance and then denounce the pursuit of that claim in the name of both safety and practical use, but only after attempting exactly what they denounced.

Then to top it off they make a pure promotional video that contradicts all of the legitimate reasons that they denounced attempting a ring time in the first place, but still provide no evidence of their original claim except some vague boasts.

This is not really about the P1. We all know it is very fast and is damn fast at the ring. Porsche may have the leg up there, maybe, but probably not many other places provided good conditions.

The problem is Mclaren. They make a claim that they refuse to back up on principles we never knew they had until after they make an attempt to verify the claim, even if just for themselves. They then seem to turn around once again glorifying everything they denounced in principle, but still provide no evidence.

Honestly at this point it matters little how fast the P1 is at the ring and if it beat the 918. It matters little if waiting is all part of a strategy to compete with Ferrari. Mclaren showed themselves as manipulative and hypocritical in the extreme, no matter their goals.

That said, I find that has little bearing on the P1 as a car. It is clearly phenomenal.

 

So McLaren is in the misconception that Ferrari is actually playing that game? They are not. They used the Nordschleife for some setup work and that is it.

 

Exactly. Couldn't say it better.

 

Mclaren knows Porsche will be going back to shave at least another 10 seconds off the 6:57 time, and if Mclaren releases a time right now they will look even more ridiculous after the 918 posts a final time at the ring.

I was told by the 918 engineers that they will be back at the ring and they believe the 918 will be at least 10 seconds faster.

 

Sorry to say it that clear and for sure never want to be rude either, but: this interpretation is from the realm of imagination. Really.

 

Yes, really.

 

I thought Ferrari made a sub-7 claim??

 

How confident? Are you "very, very, very confident"? Like Ron was when he said the P1 would be "the fastest car in the world" and that "no one would get near it's performance"?

 

Excellent post. Very well said.

 

According to Ferrari LaFerrari! | Nürburgring Lap Times

It says "[Ferrari] has already stated that it has performed sub-7 minute laps around Nürburgring's Nordschleife. However, officially confirmed times have not yet been released, so such claims can only be taken at face value."

That was back in July, 2013. So where is Ferrari's time?

 

+1000

Thank you for summing up the basics of this story and let me add that I concur on the personal opinion bits.

 

Where did Ferrari state sub 7 ring laps?