Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

In the article. And earlier in this thread someone posted its was on ferraris signage at one of the auto shows.

 

The claim isn't in the article. The writer merely suggest that the claim has been made. No quotes, no names, nothing.

It would be genuinely fascinating if they have claimed sub 7.00 somewhere, but I haven't seen anything. I wonder if anyone has a pic of that signage?

 

No mention of the Ring lap time on the sign that appeared in Geneva.

I don't think Ferrari can be quoted directly as having said much of anything about the Ring. I certainly have not picked up on it but there are, it would seem, a lot of sources (especially pre-launch) who were suggesting the sub-7:00 lap time. I personally wouldn't put a lot of faith in those statements as having come from Ferrari.

All that said, no doubts the LaFerrari could pull a time less than 7:00 if they put their minds to it.

>8^)
ER
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I sincerely doubt that Ferrari could care less about ring times and that has been consistent.

Porsche and Mclaren have been busy making claims. One has proven their pace there, the other made a promotional video.

 

Nope - no free shirts. No P1-schwag ("swag" is something different - ask your kids) either.

Going back in time a little further - after meeting some of the team from McLaren Special Operations for the first time at Pebble Beach in 2011 the head of the program sent me a set of the nitride-coated titanium spanners from the F1's on-board toolkit as a gift. It happened to be my birthday that week as well. I later found out these came out of the display cabinet in the Genesis factory where the F1s were originally built. These had been the items that might have been shown to a prospective client who came to the factory to spec their car, and seemed to have been there quite a long time. It is surely something I will cherish forever.

So does this gift, or the airline ticket, influence anything I say about McLaren as you seem to be implying - no, not one bit. My enthusiasm for the brand and their cars stretches back more than a decade before I ever crossed paths with anyone employed by McLaren or received anything you could construe as 'compensation' for my comments or activities. Even had those instances never occurred I'd not likely be saying anything different than I am today. That's the simple fact.

What the trip to Paris did allow for, and what the friendships I have formed with certain employees within the company allows for, is for me to speak from a more informed position than the average enthusiast. As they know me and my reputation, they can be a little more candid in the information they share, and that gives me confidence to make statements based more in fact than just sheer speculation or what I might like to be the truth. I will make no apologies for that and if it comes across as a PR-move to you, oh well. I'm not going to allow the reputation of the company or the car be besmirched by people who don't have much of a clue.

Looking across the web and the general reaction to this Ring video from McLaren has been HUGELY positive save for some small pockets of individuals who apparently don't want to believe what they are seeing. Conversely, one guy wrote after seeing the video that despite a couple of hundred laps around the Ring he never knew there was a jump at the location shown in the 1:20 mark in the video. Observers on the ground who witnessed their fastest laps said they had never seen a car moving quicker around the Ring. That there are people here still raising the question of whether McLaren's P1 went faster than their goal of bettering 7:00 or claiming 'It must not have beaten the Porsche or they'd be screaming it" is really rather preposterous.

I still maintain that the naysayers should hope McLaren don't reverse course on their current position - and even I will admit, they do now have a bit of a track record for changing their minds in this game.

>8^)
ER

 

You find it 'preposterous' that people won't take Mclaren's word for it that they beat 7.00 because they merely said so and made a promotional video?

How bizarre.

 

Yes, wholly unreasonable to believe the car is not capable of at least that much, if not significantly more. Take the blinders off.

>8^)
ER

 

A decent filmmaker can make a Ford Focus look like its travelling at warp speed, its why promotional videos aren't fact, nor evidence of actual performance.

I find it quite amusing that you would accuse anyone of wearing 'blinders' regarding P1 and Mclaren at this point.

 

If the P1 was faster than the 918 they would record it. Show it and savor it.


No way Mclaren beat this 918 time.
It may be close. It just didn't.

Ferrari claiming sub 7 I'm sure as in all Ferrari press cars will be done without a street going version. They always pump their cars up for tests and will never stop.

 

Erik, this is insane. No manufacturer builds a car that wows that many people to that degree and then keeps the results to themselves. McLaren are the ones who are truly preposterous.

I would appreciate you replying to this:

The problem is McLaren and their handling of the P1. If you don't consider McLaren's tactics to be a problem, then that's fine. The rest of us are just bummed that they choose to approach the general enthusiast in such a coy fashion.

 

Chris Harris' thoughts on the matter:

"Dear McLaren. Love the P1 vid. The hip-squiggle from Adenauer Forest. The insane jump down the foxhole. The stalling rear-wing, just cool, loved the narrative, the heli-shots, the wheeeeeeshing, the sense of speed. This is either a genius comms strategy to reveal a time in the near future. Or, if you genuinely intend never to tell us the time, I think you've lost your minds. Seriously, I do. Nice vid tho."

https://twitter.com/harrismonkey

 

Erik that's not the sign I was referring to. I'll look around, but it may have been posted on another thread or site. Ferrari definitely states the LaF will do a sub-7 ring time, and I'm sure it will.

As for the P1 time, I think McLaren are just choosing to wait longer to release it. There's no hard and fast rule that you must release your time within so many days. Heck, in many cases ring times don't come until years after the cars are built. Hats off to Porsche for releasing their time right away, but also remember they need to sell cars (I think about half are sold). And it appears to be working for them.

But if McLaren say a sub-7 time was achieved then I believe them. Sure I'd like to see the video as much as anybody, but if the 918 can do it with more weight and less power then I have no doubt the P1 can do it as well. McLaren is backing that up with an official statement for now, and hopefully a video in the future. I'm sure they are fully aware that in order to be ring king they will have to release a video. For now that position is held by the 918, no question. At some point I expect the P1 will take its place.

And I don't buy into the whole 'safety' theme. I think its a ruse or distraction, but the not real answer. Stupid, perhaps. So what McLaren marketing/PR is not the greatest, big deal. The are a *much* smaller company with a lot less experience at this than Ferrari. I think in the end whatever Marketing is doing will prove to be either ridiculously stupid or insanely brilliant. Keep in mind they do not need to sell cars as all 375 are sold out with a hefty wait list.

 

I don't think its insane - it's certainly a new way of playing the game, I will give you that, and except in the minds of a small number of people it appears to have worked quite well. They still hold their true results close to their chest (potentially to reveal at a later time) and have gotten an immense amount of positive attention from all this regardless of what some here will say. I think their tactics are brilliant in fact.

They have offered other evidence of the P1s performance capabilities and specifications that should allow a reasonable person with an understanding of performance cars to determine that the P1 is capable of the claim they made in their 'promotional video'. The complaint from ginge82 seems to be that the video 'doesn't prove anything' and in one respect he is correct if he believes they are lying. Compile all the evidence, including the footage from the track, and the statements they have made and it should be clear to most what the P1's capabilities are.

The idea that it doesn't rise to some people's own standards of evidence is irrelevant to McLaren. If no one believed them they might have a problem, but the large majority of people paying attention to this news don't seem to be crying foul at all. Many are supportive of McLaren's decision not to release the time along with other manufacturers (like the recent statement from Ford) who will choose to do the same with their own performance vehicles. Beyond that, people with doubts are just going to have to wait for more info or if they have the means they can buy one themselves and make their own attempt. Unlikely, but an entertaining idea nonetheless.

I do feel the pain of the 'general enthusiast' because I'd desperately like to see more of the on-board video and some of the external action shots. That footage from their video press release was undeniably awesome! I think all this desperation for a lap time is much ado about nothing and using the lack of one as proof of anything to the contrary of what they have stated is simply not valid logic.

Additionally, if McLaren did release their ultimate lap time we'd surely have a new round of claims from the naysayers that it is simply impossible or that they've massively cheated so what benefit to McLaren is that versus the doubts we are already hearing from this vocal minority? Not much, I don't think.

>8^)
ER

 

Here's a giant wall of text some won't care to read, but for the sake of the discussion this was McLaren's press release tied to the Ring video and where TopGear got their 'in excess of 111 MPH average speed' news. Just clarifying McLaren didn't ring them up and whisper in their ear - all the news outlets were privy to this.

Then you have this image where they've left the P1 parked across the track like they own the place.

Even more entertaining, from an enthusiast's perspective, is the message left in the graffiti on the track surface, accompanied by the McLaren Speed Mark. 'AVE IT' indeed!

>8^)
ER

 

Thanks for the reply.

Can't say that I agree with you entirely on your last statement. Perhaps we just think differently.

I prefer straightforward put-up-or-shut-up to what McLaren have done. I still want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that I really do hope they still have something incredible and legitimate up their sleeve.

Probably this has to do with me belonging to the masses: I'll likely never own a P1, and so having tangible numbers and evidence makes the hypercar world much more accessible for me.

You're very right: McLaren's clients probably don't care how fast the P1 is around the 'Ring. The speed of the car will be tangible in ways that I can only dream of. For the rest of us, the tangibility of such performance takes on a lesser dimension, and it's frustrating to see McLaren hold out given that most of the world lives in that lower realm.

 

This made me laugh out loud. Take it down a notch Erik...

 

Yeah - I threw that in just for you.

I do think it is hilarious, the message on the ground. At first I didn't notice it, but then when I went to resize it the McLaren logo caught my eye and I was like 'wait a minute...'

>8^)
ER

 

Its a wall of text that offers nothing other than two paid employees saying positive things about their employers new car.

No proof, just more hot air and promotion.

Well done Porsche. You really have made Mclaren lose their minds with what you went and achieved.

 

I get the feeling that you wouldn't believe anything until they strapped you in the car and let you hold the stop watch.

I imagine you are also one of those people who doesn't believe that man walked on the moon despite all the evidence to the contrary.

>8^)
ER

 

Perhaps in a sense it's not fair, but this is the atmosphere that Mclaren has fostered. If they had come out right away with a time no one would have doubted the time any more than any other manufacturer time at the ring.

But after all of this people look at Mclaren's words differently. On the other hand many post full timed vids to prove their claims so it's not actually out of the ordinary to expect more from a company when they make such a big claim.

I did thoroughly enjoy the video. I love the car in that colour and the composition is splendid. It doesn't say much about the actual pace of the car, but it does look incredibly quick.

Something still bothers me about the way Mclaren is presenting the performance. Giving the average speed rather than the actual time makes little sense because it can be extrapolated so easily. I can't help, but feel that the information they have provided hides something.

It could be as simple as it being all sector times instead of a complete lap. That's just me thinking and I don't feel it's any more likely than anything else, but the real tragedy is that Mclaren have put themselves in a position where they are not trusted.

That masses may be happy with the video, and I can understand why, but those same people may not even realize there is any controversy at all... and there is, so an overwhelmingly positive response indicates nothing except that Mclaren is quite happy that so many are ignorant of the situation.

 

I did some looking around for the sub7 claim by Ferrari was made at the F150 private preview event in maranello earlier this year. the pic was on his facebook page, but he took it down, presumably because pictures were not allowed. some of the info is on this site. I emailed a friend who is getting a laf, and he confirmed Ferrari claims a sub7 time. Its no secret Ferrari is shooting for a sub7 time.

 

Yes, the sub 7 minute time was on one of those video presentations that leaked just before the car was presented to the public.

 

Very True. I really like the McL, but why the hell are they doing this?

Why are they trying to be vague and cute? They may be just too cute by half.

For my money, right now, I do not trust McLaren. Before this latest publicity stunt, I thought McLaren was generally above board--when they achieved success, they handled it well and when they lacked performance, they were candid. All of that goodwill is gone.

They are being overly legalistic and it is petty and silly. Porsche has kicked their ass and they don't have the good sense to be straight with their customers and fans.

Right now, it is "advantage Porsche," and we should be highly skeptical of any further McL claims until we have proof of a sub 7 lap.

 

Its a high Beta PR move.

(1) In some ways, its successful because its created a ton of discussion on a topic most people said they weren't interested in.
(2) In other ways its created doubt and confusion (rightly so).

I'm happy the company is taking some PR risks rather than "playing by the book". Sales numbers clearly aren't suffering as the P1 is genuinely sold out.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h09Xsi2_Rek]LaFerrari the best of the masterpieces - YouTube[/ame]