There will always be a cheapest Ferrari. Let's hope that there'll always be an affordable one. Any hobby needs new blood and those that buy at the cheap end tend to be the ones that put more of themselves into their cars in terms of labor and relative levels of treasure. Which is not to say that those at the other end of the spectrum, who have the wherewithal to maintain and preserve the rarer and more demanding cars, don't play their part as well.
Get them while you can. I'm seriously considering buying a couple of them, and stuffing them away for a few years..
A concours 308/328 will not be had for in the low 20s or low 30s or the low 40s and so on, at least in my neck of the woods.
Big difference between a 308 and a 328. Early 308s were raw. Later 328s had ABS and were reasonably refined. Big step up in horsepower. Over a decade between an early 308 and a late 328. Therefore some real divergence in price can be expected. You can get a really nice 308 for $30K.
I guess really nice is a bit subjective. A really nice 308 by my standard is nowhere near $30k....it hasn't been for years. A platinum car is $50k plus.
especially when I squint...[ /QUOTE] Squinting makes so many things look better I have decided. Thread Discussion: If a GTO is $53,000,000 then it carries a debt service of 6% basic. Monthly it cost him $260,000, or $3.1M a year. What can you buy with $3.1M each year? In any scenario the upside of GTO prices can not warrant the purchase at a 49% premium, when normality is 5%. So, Mr. X pays a 49% premium in a feeding frenzy? Ok, I am listening. I am wondering if there are more than 2 people in the world that would want a GTO for that debt when you can have an entire creditable collection including a TR, SWB, TDF etc. The $53M is club membership, not real Ferrari value. There are plenty of great Ferraris made at the time of the artist Enzo’s highest era , and GTO’s are just one . A GTO purchase now is a hyper market purchase, based on the club membership. For someone to proves to the world their courage by publicly setting a new world's record when it’s their first, I'm listening. Cars are not like art because in the market of art, upside gain is rarely or discreetly discussed. With the GTO’s , it’s center stage about money. Even a prior owner jumps in into the media to brag that ‘’once ‘’ the $53M car was his. No one in a creditable recognized market would do that. It’s all ego talking. GTO’s are now 80% about the money, 20% about the club of 39 members that drove it where it is. Strip that away and you will see the true value of the car. The current GTO value is in the membership to the club. That is why the value has a bigger downside than upside. With a TR ( or any good 1950’s Ferrari ) , IMO, far more important cars from a well defined and greater period of the artist ‘s ‘’high-point’’ – that is not a club membership. The market is fueled by a redefining of valuations currently. That fueling makes many other Ferrari’s look like good value, safe harbor for fractions of the GTO membership dues. The GTO drive in pricing can actually assist in defining the market valuation of other important Ferrari’s. That defining will be based on limited productions, milestones of a series, unique models, good history and originality , all making for portfolio quality Ferraris. When a series defined to a period emerges that have all the boxes checked on desirability, a market forms and prices rise in that sector. There are enough ‘’great Ferraris ’’ to make a solid market, yet so very few in this new world. It’s all merging now to create a more solid market. There will 100% be a shake down. That filtering will create a more level and logical valuation of all Ferrari cars. As academic experts emerge , creditability will follow a cleaner path in the assessments of each car with a formula for more professional appraisals of both value , authenticity and expertise. The higher values warrant a change for the better.
^^^ Very interesting, and this view does have merit IMO. Will the bubble burst? Don´t all bubbles?? ... Will it be soon? Don´t we all wish we had a crystal ball. I think a market correction is coming within a years time. But it will not effect all evenly. The lowly Boxer for instance. ... Did I just say ¨lowly¨. Sheez. Although all markets are driven by supply and demand, I think the V8 market may be seen as a ¨truer¨ example of it. When there are more people willing to pay the ¨lowly¨ cost of Ferrari club ownership, we will see that market rise.
Truthfully the 308 may be the best modern post 1973 ferrari to buy due to the low cost to maintain and initial buy in. Especially compared to the 80/90s TR that are the most expensive modern vehicle to maintain. Problem with 308s is because they are so cheap they are neglected and many owners forget that the cars are going on 40 years old. Most cars that old (like the american market) have been refurbished with new rubber bushings and hoses. How many 308 owners spend the money to replace suspension bushings and even service their shock absorbers? There are plenty of great example 308s in pristine condition but not many. I believe the most valuable 308s will be the fiberglass 1976 vehicles. Think about how many Daytonas are being restored and completely gone through, yet I know of maybe a handful 308s that have been stripped down and completely redone. The bubble may not exactly burst but may deflate a certain amount and then rise again over the next several decades. When the time comes, the low production modern cars may follow the same trend as the pre73 vehicles like the 308 and 550 but certainly not the 18,000 units of the 360. Another big factor I believe the older carbed cars will continue to demand a higher price tag is because of the almost non existent amount of electronics equipped to make the vehicle run. The older vehicles are more mechanical and serviceable where the newer vehicles require a computer and other electronics just to setup a clutch (for example). How many of the modern vehicles will survive the next 40 years? The older koni shocks are serviceable yet the 360 shocks are completely sealed. I believe another important factor is the era when aerodynamics became a big topic for car manufactures. The 365 series were some of the first vehicles Pininfarina experimented with aero styling bodies. Daytonas were originally never supposed to have pop up headlights, which is why the earlier daytona have sealed ones. The days of true handmade vehicles are long gone.
In August I paid mid twenties for a GT4 with a great body, fine interior, solid chassis and strong engine. Since then I've put almost 50% more into redoing the suspension, replacing fuel and coolant lines, wheels and tires, and a few other details. Could I recoup my investment? Who knows? And I really don't care. I bought it to drive not to sell.
I came across the following while trying to see the "Speedster" on bring-a-trailer. I think brilliantly sums up much of what has gone on in the Ferrari market as well; very zen... I have my grandfather’s axe. I’ve replaced the handle I’ve replaced the head I have my grandfather’s axe.
you should be fine... everyone is fixed on the raw number of a transaction, without any further consideration... the reality is there are more metrics involved than sales price alone as your post purchase expenditures have shown, that affect longer term values... get 'er back to 100% and enjoy your ride, you should be pleased with end result
Thanks. The stuff that I'm having done are things that need doing every twenty years or so. Bushings etc. it's not like its a recurring expense. Not that there won't be plenty of new expenses. When it's delivered I expect to be able to drive it most anywhere (carrying a minimum amount of spares and tools) and have a reasonable expectation of returning under its own power. That's good enough for me.
I am curious to see how everybody here is defining the word "bubble?" Terms like this are thrown around rather loosely. Every day on the various business networks without ever taking much time to define them. In my opinion a bubble implies something that can really pop and decline to the magnitude of 60-70% or more. With such a defined limited production of the early important f cars it seems unlikely we see a decline of that magnitude any time soon. Could we see a decline of 15%,20%,30% or so in a few years, sure why not. But in the long term trend that probably is not such a big deal. It seems pretty logical that once rates starts to move higher (whenever that is ) hard assets in general will loose some appeal probably not do as well, but that does not mean they need to crash. I think the real question for those "investing" in these cars is how will they perform relative to other asset classes over the next 5-10 years. Putting the billionaires aside that have limitless funds, in general tying up multiple millions of dollars in these cars no matter how much we love them just becomes much less appealing if you start missing opportunities to compound that money in other investments/asset classes.
noticed an interview given by Hagerty Insurance... they do not think there is a bubble or any sell off of the magnitude of the one in the 90's they reported a rise in the value of collector cars of 25% year over year 2012-2013 they think there is a possibility that a car can sell above $100 million in the next 3-5 years
It is a bubble - this sort of car isn't worth $2m. A bubble investment is when something is sought far beyond its intrinsic value, by too many people, most of whom are not actually interested in the object, only in its dizzy, and certain, appreciation. At the end of the day a car you can't drive is akin to a meal you can't eat, or a bottle of wine you can't open. It has become surreal, in that its functionality has been stripped from its existence, and that is the end of it, until too many people sell, and then it might become a car again. Image Unavailable, Please Login
a million in any currency is not what it used to be... among those with resources, a million is a drop in the bucket, as the number of major millionaires is becoming the norm...$2,000,000 for any collector car is chump change... those that still think that a million is a lot, should wake up to find the world has moved on
