964 vs. 930 market prices

I'm more of a lurker than contributor here but, I've been sporadically following the 80's 90's Porsche market for a little while now and was wondering what the market is on these cars?

I have a pickup and a 2013 Abarth that is my hauler and daily respectively. So the Porsche can sit pretty in the garage or stored for a bit if need be. I'm mainly looking at the lower end of the market, where I've seen prices ranging from $20-30k with fairly average miles it seems. I also would prefer something that's been beat on a little, where a little use and abuse didn't hurt it. I already baby the Abarth when I thought I would just thrash it and not give a ****, but taking something from good condition and beating it up (even if it depreciates) can sometimes be unsettling. Hence, why I would prefer something that's been beat on and/or tracked as opposed to a low-mileage collectable would be.

I guess my question is, where exactly is the market for the lower end 930's/964's? It seems to be all over the place, and I'll generally check rennlist weekly just to get an idea of where everything is at, but the market seems very confused at the moment. Keep in mind I'm at least 6 months to a year off from this purchase, but doing my research early will pay off in the long run and give me more flexibility in the end. Rather than jumping into it not knowing anything.

P.S. I would prefer a 964 over 930 due to the torsion spring front suspension in the 930, but if things were priced accordingly wouldn't completely overlook something like it.

Regards

 

You will be hard pressed to find either in good shape in that price range.

Spend a few months looking at all shapes and sizes.
Get a good feeling for cost.
Always get a solid PPI and Leak down test to check engine strength.

GOOD luck in your search.

 

Two great but different cars. Watch this space:
Porsche Cars For Sale - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

 

We're in another car bubble right now and I wouldn't buy anything.

 

That was my feeling right now as well. I used to watch the market for early vw bugs on the samba and would occasionally look at 356 prices, just because I thought they were cool and thought about purchasing a shell as they were REALLY cheap a few years ago. Now a rough shell is going for 30-50k!!!! While a clean one is six figures. I couldn't believe it....

In any case, idea's on when this bubble is going to burst? I still kind of think we are at the beginning of the bubble and air-cooled Porsche's are going to go up more.

 

I want to hear more about this, thanks.

 

This isn't a car bubble. Yet.

Cars are gaining value from $50k to $50 million because it's just a better place for cash than the bank.

Why not have a beautiful piece of art in the garage vs a little extra cash earning next to nothing. Where many of these cars now Are gaining good value.

Art very much the same.

 

My theory:
What looks like a bubble is IMO a long overdue correction. Collector car prices crashed in 89, then never really recovered with the economy. They were artificially cheap for a long time. When the 08 financial crisis happened, capital cast about for safe havens, and discovered a variety of real asset classes that were cheap. Collector cars were one of them.

 

Interesting. If I can find one that needs a little work that runs, but is also the right price, I would most likely pull the trigger. We shall see, i'm keeping a close eye on the 964 prices....

 

In 1986 A friend sold his RSR Carrera Speedster for five times what he paid for it, $45,000 because he wanted to sell on top of the "bubble". Then he wanted to wait tell the 73 911 Carrera's came off their bubble price at the time of $75,000 and buy one with his $45,000 He never did buy that 73 Carrera.
Yes, there is a frenzy right now on 911's, there were no 911's made after 1989 IMHO, 964, 993 yes but not real 911's, and the frenzy is more of a correction I believe because the price was low for so long on these cars as everybody brought the newest Porsche they could afford for the longest time and never looked at 911's as collectable Porsche's, 356 was the collectable Porsche in people's mind for years. The 911 were just used cars. Now they have entered the new category of "collectable".
A early 911,65-73, has the vintage feel and look of Porsche and the performance to move in modern traffic and now has met or surpassed the 356 in price on average.

 

I recall the go go 80's as well. (The parts I remember). In cars, it was all about Italian and it was crazy, irrational exuberance. 246 Dinos shot from $30k to $150+ in a couple years. Anything ending in an "i" was golden. Then the correction came. Today's market is different. It's more rational, with the possible exception of old 911s. It's a growing international pool of buyers chasing a set number of cars. One can even justify those 911 prices.

I agree with Keith Martin (publisher of SCM) who dismisses the bubble argument.

On the OP subject, I'm currently looking for a 964. They're a fantastic 911 and are poised for a run up. Not interested in a turbo.

 

I am sorry I was not more specific. Prices went up in the 80's came down, then the cars I mentioned Carrera speedster and the 73 Carrera have gone back up today to surpass any high they had in the 80's. Bubble survivor.
Dino's have not gone below $150 for quite some time and the really nice ones are selling for twice that. Another bubble survivor.
A real bubble car of the 80's was the new Testarossa Ferrari, almost a mil in the height of the 80's bubble and now the best in the world are a tenth of that.
So picking cars wisely is really the key. And waiting to get that car off the bubble and you might miss your chance altogether was my point.
The high maintenance cost of the 930 well plague its climb as a collectable especially compared to the easer driven and lower maintenance of the 964.
But the 964 does not have the 'Look' of the 930.

 

I own an '89 964 Carrera 4 with 130,000 miles on it. Completely stock and unmodified. I've owned many 911's including 993's. The 964 is one of the best well kept secrets. Of all the 911's I've owned it is my favorite to drive. My friends who were skeptical completely changed their tune once they drove mine. Ask yourself, why do most of them have so many miles on them? They're really reliable, powerful and capable. Mine drives and feels like new. Just normal dealer service. A true "all-weather" machine. If you look at the Rennlist or S-Registry forum on the 964, it's the most active and enthusiastic. It's truly the affordable 959. There's a reason Rob Dickenson chose it as his base for the Singer! It's also Alois Ruf's favorite classic 911 foundation to build on. They are pure Weissach!

Freeman
Rgruppe Co-Founder
Member #003

 

Freeman thanks much.

I'm currently working with Rothsport on a car which may or may not work out. If not I might hit you up for leads! With your permission of course.

Best regards-

Matthew
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lol, This is my dilemma, the 930 has the better looks but the 964 has the Macpherson strut front suspension. I'd rather have the latter though. It's even more obvious when you look at how well Singer pulled off the look on a 964 with the old school front bumper.

Good luck with the purchase! Im in the PNW as well. Is Rothsport located in california or out of the region, so to speak? I only ask because it is tough finding a worthy non-turbo 964 that is in the Seattle-Portland-Vancouver B.C. area.

 

While I love the 964 3.6 turbo, the 88-89 911 is the best 911 to own IMHO.

 

The 964 is more modern, but when I compare the driving feel among the turbos I've had (930 (3.0, 3.3, 3.4), 964t, 996tt) I would say the 964t drives more similar to the 996tt, than the 930. The 930s are a very different driving experience, and I prefer that. There is also a difference between the 3.0 and the 3.3, and to me, the 3.0 is preferable.

 

Testarossa's never got to $1 million, I do remember them selling for $100,000 over MSRP while they were still in production. F40's arrived just as the market peaked, the first cars brought $1 million(MSRP approx. $440,000) and fell from there. The speculators who overpaid scrambled for the exits as the market collapsed. F40's eventually bottomed in the low $200's. They have recovered nicely.

 

That IS a nice looking car.

 

Thanks. Not the actual car in question however--the photo is of a factory 3.8RS in Germany.