I think I'm done with Ferrari

Not even remotely. There are more than enough old Ferraris with all those features available for purchase. Why would any carmaker build a car with outdated technology? This is not the point of the OP. His point IMO is that Ferrari has become complacent, bland, uninteresting and overpriced and no longer represents the state of the art in cars. Literally every major manufacturer out there builds an equal or better car from a fit, finish and overall reliability standard

 

I drove some of the older cars. Are you trying to imply that breaking down a lot and being in the shop a lot (with expensive repairs) was so much more fun than the relatively reliable cars (with better warrantees and maintenance programs) of today? Not for me thanks. If Ferrari still made cars like the old days they would have gone out of business by now.

Yes and some new magic has taken its place. Imagine being able to tell tire pressure and temperature without having to stop and get out of the car! Imagine a radio that actually works! Imagine a defroster that defrosts the windows in the front AND in the back! Imagine a convertible with a folding hard top which doesn't leak! Wow, to the Ferrari owner of yesteryear these things are truly magic!

...being used for racing. Ferrari races 458 variants race in several different sanctioned racing series, have their own racing series, and operates factory-created competition driver training events on multiple race tracks in North America and Europe. In addition they offer customer racing programs. They're expensive but racing the latest Ferraris has always been an expensive undertaking.

You mean the dial that lets you reduce (and turn off) the nannies and drive like you did in the 'good old days'? Maybe the one your 458 was fake but the one on mine works quite well! If you want that old-time danger component to come back just dial the manettino all the way to the right and then stab the throttle around a few turns. Enjoy the spin!

 

Well said. Please don't go away. Post more!

 

Hip, hip, hooray!

Yes, in a way Ferrari has changed. Now, they make the best cars in their history.

 

Well the manettino is useless indeed if you use your car driving from one stop light to the next and if you care about air conditioning and expensive cup holders.

However, if you think it is an achievement that Ferraris GT car, the F12, is better than the top of the line lamborghini, maybe the cars are not that bad after all.

 

458's have cup holders? Finally something I like about them.

 

maybe it is worth staying

forget about McQueen or Bieber - I'll take the Lusso!

 

No it's not sad because they do in fact make these cars. Ferrari makes their special editions (360CS, 430Scud, 458 Speciale, etc)

Case in point...

I bought a 2012 Porsche Boxster Spyder which is a lowered, light weight, bumped up power version of their regular S model. It was made for two years. It is way better looking than a regular Boxster. Guess what... It hardly sold. Under 2,500 produced worldwide.

No... This board is wrong. The market for lightweight no frills true sports cars is small. Very Small.

Denial is the word here. You know who you are.

 

First, who said "no frills"? Was a 308 "no frills"? It had AC and heat. Leather seats. It had a radio.

It didn't have electric seats, heat warmers, power reverse mirrors, power steering, dual climate controls, automatic gearboxes, navigation systems, etc, etc, etc...

Is there no market anymore for a car like that? If so, why are 308's still so popular?

It may be a small market. But, why should I buy a bloated luxo cruiser? Just because its "a Ferrari"?

You keep going back to this theme over and over. I really don't care what the public wants. What I said is they aren't making what I want.

We could have ended this thread 50 pages ago...

... except so many agreed with me.

Even if you left all that stuff in it, you still can design and engineer a car with a sense of purpose and feeling other than what it appears to be now: something to cruise down your street at 30 mph and let people take pictures of you for facebook.

 

Does a 308 drive more raw than a RS America?

Low gear ranges?
Non power steering?
No lag in gears fairly constant torque curve?

 

Nailed it ....

 

Ferrari is not selling what the public wants, it's what most of Ferrari's customers want. That's why their business has never been better.

But there are cars like you describe. My Boxster Spyder is completely that. It has AC, leather seats, radio, etc. Of course I could have deleted or not ordered those options. It's mid engined and light weight with bullet proof reliability and has great sound (with sport exhaust). It sold new in 2012 for $65- $80K.

What about cars like the RS America, etc.? What about Lotus?

The 308 is popular because it's cheap and beautiful AND a Ferrari. It's slow and not as safe or reliable as a new Ferrari and costs 1/9th the price. When it was new it was considered slow. Now it's slower than a snail.

Why doesn't the 360CS, Scud, or Speciale fit your mark? Or is is Ferrari to up market for you NOW?

This thread is active because your message is quite debatable (and wrong )

You are in denial. Ferrari is at the top of their game. The car you want exists and is made from time to time in small numbers by several manufacturers.

You have changed, soured, and become jaded. The car world has never been better!

 

Xactly, and porche saw a market for the GT3. Even if the market is small, its the core foundation of a brand and profitable. @00 sales in ayear of a product for ferrari is good, hell if they reclothed a 355 to look closer to a 288, no ps etc with a 458 motor and stick and sold 500 a year for 300k it would work.

Whover said Mqueen or Bieber hit it spot on.
Or how about Fangio or Hedge fund manager.
Or Carrol Shelby or Paris Hilton today.

 

I guess thats true x z8!

Never was the offer so huge and so varied, we are living in a land of plenty.

You can enjoy, consume and always buy the latest. Why not, thats ok.

On the other side you have to know exactly what you want, you have to evaluate really deep because the market offering is so bright and the marketing promises are so magnificent. This approach is for sure also ok. (if you can buy only one... )

How ever, in this crazy and fast moving time there can come up desire for the good old times.

 

Yes, these are the best of times...

 

Actualy in the 60s there were far more boutique manufaturers and they had an ease of bringing varied product to the market not possible today. Cars today are faster easier to use and more reliable. They are also more corporatised, blanded and less differentiated than before.

Its Ok though, the wheel turns, motorcycles went though this process 20 years ago, and now we see a bigger offering of differntiated machines than was the case since the late 50's, because people dont all want somethign of the same mold, and there is a healthy market for that. Just as BMW has dicovered that there is a healthy market in the USA to offer their M cars with a stick. Yes the majority wants somethign different, the majority also likes fruit loops over real fruit.

 

I'm not tired of "too easy and too refined and too reliable Ferraris".
I am tired of the usual games one has to play here in US of A to obtain the new models.
"don't put too many miles","trade it for new car regularly",etc ,etc.
Maybe it is different in other parts of the country but that is the way here in God forsaken,ugly Midwest.
You decide to take a hiatus from buying a new car every few months and keep your current one a bit longer (God forbid you put more then 2k miles on it) and you promptly drop off the "preferred customer" list.
You get replaced with another sucker for whom it is so important to just have the car sit in a garage and you can forget about getting the newest Ferrari for a long time.
For true enthusiast who just wants to enjoy driving it,vintage or just a "yesterday's news" Ferrari makes much more sense.
As far as "rawness" is concerned,I agree with some posters above,no one wants them,market is insignificant to matter for the manufacturers.

 

What do you think of a 599 GTO? It would suit you well.

 

Absolutely!Anywhere but Illinois though,you can only cruise that thing at the 55 limit otherwise it's jail time (2 year court supervision for me started in December)
On a secondary market,as my point above.
At the moment though,dealing with insurance headaches takes precedence over what car should I get next....

 

Exactly my point. You could trash around a Dino or 308 and not end up losing your license every weekend. I drove mine hard and only had one ticket in 18 years. If I treated the 458 the same way I'd be in a cell next to OJ.

I just don't see the point of saying the only time you can have fun with these things is when you break the law or risk the lives of others or go on a track.

We can't have a fun Ferrari driving experience under 60 anymore? You sure could in the past.

I see a point in the future similar to muscle cars in the late 60's. Insurance, regulation, and law enforcement will cause a drastic change in the sportscar market. Maybe then these wonderful but mostly useless machines will deliver some fun again on city streets and not just a track.

 

That picture and all that's behind it could be a whole other thread/debate.

Love the comparison!

 

The Mayor speaks the truth; plus the cars are meant to be enjoyed/driven, not put away as an investment...............

 

I have fun driving the 458 Spider under 60 with the top down, sun shining. Of course the speed limit is 25-35. No traffic. No cops. Nice pavement. Just pure enjoyment. 12k+ miles for the last six months. No tickets. No warnings. Mostly good luck.

More fun than driving the F355 F1 GTS with Tubi, 360 F1 Spider with Tubi or the Boxster S with 6 speed manual and sports exhaust. They are all great driving cars but the 458 in RACE mode is just so responsive and visceral it wins hands down. the car as a driver is perfect.

Best.

 

I've been an owner for ten years and have been with the brand in spirit and in dreams for most of my life.

After logging over 130,000 miles (360 and Cali) and still driving, I can say that you very accurately sum up all the negatives of driving and living with a Ferrari.

I feel exactly the same way.

But then a little time passes and I can't wait to get into one (Cali or 458 spider) and drive.

 

I have driven tens of thousands of miles in vintage Ferraris, and only left stranded once. Right on the spot of that picture. That time was just ten miles after picking up my car from the dealership. They were the there in fifteen minutes.
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