Have we destroyed the 355?

Well said! 355/348s are great cars. I had my 348 for 20 years and it rarely gave me any issues at all. I took care of it. Serviced it properly..... usually by me. Now it is in the caring hands of another FChatter, and he is enjoying it.

When I had mine and spent more time in this area it was painful listening to all the 'experts' slag off on the cars. Most had little to no experience with the cars, or it was some genius who bought the cheapest car he could find and then was pissed that it was a terrible car and a money pit.

Every time someone does this, it chips away at the market perception, and hence the values. So, try not to shoot yourself in the foot.

 

it will take patience but the car will most certainly increase in value...355's had lost 50% of its value in 3 years as with many other cars in its class during the beginning of the recession. Only then did you see major increases in mainly "Blue Chip" cars as they are considered financial safe havens. If you look at the evidence (Hagerty) of how 355's have begun to increase again from 2012 to present they gained a 50% increase from their lowest value within one year. Its all about patience...so enjoy your 355, treat her right and she will treat your right and check this write up.

Hammond drives the icons: Ferrari 355 - BBC Top Gear

 

This is an amazing thread and have read every post here in the 11 pages so far.
A post from Pete aka Nosevi here on F chat highlighted the ridiculous costs that you guys in the US are paying in comparison to the UK costs. It's frightening and shocking when I see what you pay and he is totally correct!

Similarly to him I also take my car to Ferrari main dealer and get a great price on the work done to my car and they do charge less for the older models. Can I ask you guys what is the hourly labour rate you are being charged including any taxes? This hasn't been mentioned anywhere and would be interesting to know.

It's true that the 355 is going up in value here in the UK and is now just overlapping the price of a 360.

I am looking to upgrade my Mondial to a 348 or 355 soon and considering the cost of a 355 being similar to a 360 and the 360 not requiring an engine out belt service etc, what would be the better option?

I love these cars am totally torn between them. A 348 is much more affordable here. Does any here have experience of both a 355 and 360 for comparison?

Cheers.

 

I have had a 355, then 360 then back to a 355,

355 - classic Ferrari - gorgeous looks and sounds, drives like a 90s car, values steady or slowly going up, slightly fragile with headers, ecus, interiors, and often prone to a bit of rot,

360 - more modern feel to car, much more usable on a day to day, bigger and more comfortable, marginal cheaper to own, much more torque from engine, less prone to serious corrosion, sound good with a tubi, pretty lame with a stock box, prices fairly level with no noticeable depreciation in the last few years, prone to ball joints (circa £1000 to replace all four fronts - every 10k miles ish)

to be honest if the cost of having belts replaced every three years, (circa £1000 from independent which will include oil/fluids then don't buy one as neither a 360 or 355 can be run on a shoestring,

I will buy another 360 again, but wont sell the 355,

my thoughts are that I prefer the looks of the 355, they are likely to appreciate, they are a bit more quirky to drive, not as solid put together as a 360, but I am lucky if I will do 1000 miles per year so its a sunny day car (I have a couple of porsches also)

I preferred the torque of the 360, but they were still depreciating when I sold mine, its a much bigger and (faster feeling car) much more modern feel to it, its like jumping into a bmw I think - it just doesn't feel as special inside, but with a tubi fitted its a stunning car to drive, I loved mine - had it three years and still in touch with the new owner who has had it 4 years and will probably buy it back.

the only real answer is to have both, coupe 360 and 355 spider, problem solved,

cheers
Scott
Glasgow

 

My 355 is a far better driving car than my 2008 BMW xi which I love beyond imagination yet the 355 is more comfortable and even better on a long drive

 

This is my goal for 2015 - going to get the 355 nice and sorted out, get my wifey a Tesla (that's what she wants) and begin the search for a gated 360!

 

I am not an active member of FChat but I really like your thread, Monteman

I bought 1995 F355B, 35,000 km., in 2011. Only annual oil change, USD 300 to fix sticky a/c dash, USD 1,000 for a new set of right door lock assembly and a new set of Bridgestone S001 tyre.

 

Im about to pick up (like this week) my first Ferrari ever (super excited).The car is a 95 F355 w/29,xxx miles. Engine suffered the bad valve guides and engine was rebuilt at dealership 2.5 years ago to the tune of $40k with receipts. The first thing I did was jump online and do the research and I must admit,I have gotten a dark view on the 355 cars from whats all over the net.However,I am buying from a friend that I trust and I have reviewed the receipts and called the dealership that preformed the work to verify dates and miles.Its been 2.5 years and 6K miles on the new engine. So im hoping I get another 2.5 years and whatever miles before the first major. It had a clutch at 21,300,so I should be good there to. The stickey parts have been fixed. I noticed half a brake light out, interior door lock switch locks doors but will not pop em open (small stuff like that drives me nuts) even know I just reach over the shoulder and pull up the lock. The flying buttress (sure I spelled that wrong) starting to do what it does under the paint. Both electric window switch pods are very loose in the door panels and pop out if slammed to hard.Other then that the car pulls and drives like an animal. The sound is insane!

I have owned 3 air cooled Porsche cars in a short period of time (the past 4 years) including a 82SC full blown lightweight track/street car (should have never sold) ,super clean 95 993 (should have never sold),and a original 87 930 slant (should have never sold). I then had a 1 off 87 Renntech Mercedes 190E 16v (with complete engine swap) (should have never sold). All very very cool cars in my eyes. I bought them, dialed them in, enjoyed them and sold them (most of the time I lost a bit) *except 993 and 930.I plan on doing this with the Ferrari as well but I don't see myself selling the car anytime soon. I don't care if its slow in "todays" automotive world (new mustangs probably can smoke it) or if its high maintenance. I really don't care, I have a passion for these kind of cars and its what I do. Some of my buddies play golf, watch football, go fishing. I do cars, and maintenance is part of the game as I see it. Thats goes for any car but especially exotics in my eyes.I cant wait and I feel privileged to even have a shot at it! Truly a dream coming true! I will keep you informed of how it treats me and how I treat it, LOL. I have my own shop with a few "talented" mechanic's running around. Not Ferrari specific guys but I imagine we can drop an engine to change a few belts. We did just fine with the Porsche cars, So I say,BRING IT ON!!!!! Cheers!

I know, i know, Im a bit getty over the first time buyer stuff....
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Oh man, you're going to love it! Very different from Porsche. Hopefully the deal goes through and you can join the happy 355 owner club!

 

glad you're buying one with the work done, good for you. But, i get a good laugh when i see these things, $40k for an engine rebuild on a 29000 mile engine.Doesn't anyone question this stuff when the dealer gives the estimate for the work?

Just priced valve guides at $58.00 and $71.00 , head gaskets are $218.00 , plus all the other misc. gaskets to do the job may add up to $400 Or $500.

The labor , pulling heads , pressing out valve guides, pressing new ones in , is no different from a machine shop point of view than any other cylinder head.

So , i guess , to answer the question, and this is thanks to people that pay that kind of money , without second guessing the price they are being charged , is yes , you have ruined the 355.

With some COMMON SENSE , 348's and 355's can be maintained and repaired for reasonable amounts.

Most posts i read on here are by people with some brains that repair and maintain the cars themselves , hats off to those guys , but 40k to rebuild an engine. come on.

 

I agree but there are more materials such as fluids, etc. But let's assume $5K in parts, that would be $35K for labor. Assume $150 per hour and that's 233.3 hours, nearly 6 weeks and that's pretty funny.

 

so I take it back, other charges included, not just straight forward engine rebuild, as you can see.Shows $30,906 just in parts,here is just the majors...

main bearing $2039
rod/connecting 698 eachx8 5584
cyl barrel 675 each x8 $5400
pistons/rings 675 each x8 $5400

ignition wire set 952
fabspeed headers 3000

 

Looks like that motor was seized up - probably would have cost less for a new motor.

 

oh, that makes more sense, 29k is terribly wore out, i'm sure it needed all that. lol. those titanium conn rods , are so weak , they wear out so fast . pistons too, what are they good for now days 3 or 4 thousand miles.

we have an m3 at our shop now for a vanos unit , i think tomorrow i'm going to call the owner and reccommend a 40k rebuild. i'm sure he will call the police on me for robbery ! but thats a bmw , not a ferrari

 

just joking , apologies if it really was a seized motor. doubtful tho

 

Not that its in the same league with those repairs but I'm replacing my alternator belt and tensioner bearing this weekend. $55 total in parts (oblivious not ordered from the dealer) and hopefully not more than a couple hours of my time. This easily would have been $200 parts + $200 labor or more from the dealer plus towing the car to them. Using that same ratio, doing the work myself, where practical, can be 1/8th the price.

 

i guess i'm just jealous that i don't have any shop customers that i can hose like that. but then again i have a conscience.

not that i know anything about a veyron , nor know anyone that owns one, but i think even a veyron owner would have a hard time believing his car needs that kind of work at 29k. just sayin.

I have a buddy with a 355 with 70k on it , smokes a little puff at an 8500 rpm shift, but not 40k bad.

 

How did you source the parts?

 

Not necessarily. That's a rebuild. New liners, pistons, rod..... Rebuilt, not reconditioned. But yes, a replacement (used) motor would have been less.

 

Another F Chatter, Plugzit, referred me to G T Car Parts out of Phoenix, AZ. (623) 780-2200.

 

58 dollars each..those would be the exhaust valves..58.00x16=$928.00
71.00 each..those would be the intake valves there are 24 of those 71.00x25=$1704

Add machine work say 3k for both heads, head gaskets at 436 for the pair

1704+928+436+3000=$6068..we havn't added valve seals or valve keepers either.

All that 6k gets you is your heads with new guides and seals.

Add labor, other gaskets, hoses, spark plugs etc, and your creeping in on 20k without labor, or fluids and filters. You may wanna change out those manifolds while your in there. That's just to do the heads.

His car needed bottom end. It's not uncommon for the 355 to wash out cylinder number 2 liner.

40k is not outa line at all.

 

Why does it washout #2?

 

3k just for labor to redo the heads..

 

We can argue costs all day. Quality of work, extent of work, blah, blah, blah. If you're a dealer and sub out the work to a good machine shop, then double your cost, yeah $3k is realistic. If you claim all 40 valves need to be replaced when it's the guides that are bad, okay. If you think a $25,000 valve job, or $40,000 engine rebuild is better than a $12 or $20k, and that you'll feel it in the throttle, then go for it. Many do. Are they fools? No, they're believers, and they're willing to pay for the peace of mind it gives them to have so-and-so do the work. There's pride and value too. When you bought a car, you probably asked "who did the work on the car?" If the answer is Dave Helms, Brian Crall, or Ferrari of Hoboken, then you're satisfied. If it's Billybob Billywilly down at the corner Mobil, then maybe you walk away. So yeah, maybe the guy paid too much. Or maybe he sold you his car and the other guy didn't.
And yeah, I wouldn't pay that much, but then I don't care if you buy my car or not.

 

Come on 14k in labor to do heads. this is ridiculous.

Anyone who has actually gotten dirty turning wrenches one one of these cars realizes that they are actually a very simple car.I can have the engine out of my car , and heads off in one day.

As far as the heads themselves. take two heads unmarked , to a machine shop , lets say audi v8 heads as they are also 5valve, and the guy standing at the press in the machine shop does not know the difference, assuming there are no markings on the heads. The price is the same.

Anyone crazy enough to think 14k in labor is in line , please send your cars to my shop , i will gladly rob you. hell, i'll even pay the shipping and delivery, i'll pull your heads, pay my machine shop $500 in labor to put new guides in, have the machinist check for valve straightness and wear , which there will be none , because it is a low mileage engine, thus eliminating the need to buy valves, buy the gaskets, assemble it real nice, then i'll kick you in the teeth and charge you 20k.

as far as liners. you can search the internet and find only a few mentions of liner failures. but if it strokes your ego into thinking you drive such an exotic and extreme machine, while the engine is out , i'l pay the same machinist a few hundred dollars to measure tolerances and make sure all liners are within ferrari spec for their wear limit, which again , there will be none , because were still talking about a low mile engine, and kick you in the teeth again and charge you another 20k. i might even throw in a free detail job and place a nice package of Italian mints on the seat before we ship it back

Here's the point, or question. one of my customers bought a new 2005 legacy turbo, modified the hell out of it, cranked the boost up into the stratosphere, beat its ass for 300k, ( at 180k we put a timing belt and clutch in it ) , finally traded it in when the wastegate was stuck closed , even more boost, i beat its ass for another 25k trying to blow it up, then a friend of mine, bought it, and continues to beat its ass. these are known to be weak engines. Can we therefore reason that , subaru builds a better engine than ferrrari . That's sad

I'd be embarrassed to tell anyone i paid 40k for an engine rebuild.

I love my ferrari , i just hate stupid people.