Must be a Ferrari coke machine. If you look closely, you'll see it only accepts hundred dollar bills, sounds great when you turn it on, breaks down once a month, and delivers cokes almost as fast as the McLaren Pepsi machine (which features a Carbon Fibre tub!)
You must be CRAZY!!!...I challenge ANYONE to look at that Coke "Ice Box" & make a correlation with Ferrari. You must See ALLOT of mirages in the desert...Alex
If there was a Ferrari Kool Aide...FAR TOO MANY of YOU, would be drinking it MORE than you ALREADY are!!!...Alex
Well said! Classics: I do understand, for us old guys the desire to hold onto the way things were (manual transmission- more driver involvement/ connection, no driver nannies- the driver driving the car- instead of the car largely doing the driving). Moderns: But, on the other hand, I also like effortless speed and razor sharp handling. The moderns also can have great sound and classic good looks. The nannies also will likely save me from myself. I'm not a professional driver. My skill set does not match that required of any super car without such assists. Therefore, ego aside I'm better off. Reliability and fit and finish is light years improved. I no longer have the time do deal with the headaches that come with an older car. Future: As the new technology evolves and becomes perfected I presume that those that are not entrenched or biased by their past will view modern cars differently then the Luddites described above by G Pepper. Classics will always be valued and coveted for their novelty, history, and rarity. Denial: Ferrari has perfected their business model as objectively defined by profits. They are making the best cars in their history as defined objectively by performance and reliability and best serving their customers whom are today's enthusiast (NOT yesterdays or hardcore). Serving the old school enthusiast is not good business. These special cars do not sell in large enough numbers. The market is too limited. Ferrari will occasionally serve this segment with specialty cars at a higher price point. That is the only way they can justify the lower production from a business stand point. They also will not dilute the brand and produce enthusiast cars utilizing past technologies (e.g., manual transmission). And they certainly won't at a lower price point. It just not good business and it's their business that they understand better than anyone, especially armchair quarterbacks on an Internet forum. Shortcomings: Complaining (you know oh you are) about Ferrari's shortcomings largely misses the point because Ferrari has been improving. Maybe Ferrari isn't good enough for you, but they are good enough for more customers than at any other time in their history. The proof is in the pudding. Buy what you like, and stop complaining (I know you won't)!
So does Walmart and Dollar Tree but that doesn't mean I want to shop there. What are McDonald's profits? Pretty good I think.
The internet is a wonderful thing...it gives voice to the impassioned. Our x z8 is as impassioned as anyone I've seen, and FerrariChat is his stage. Lucky for him that there are sufficient people in the audience to banter with.
You know not of which you speak. I have driven both on track and against eachother. Admitedly it was LRP wich is a tight twisty track, but there is no contest here. Yes on the autobhan above 150mph a 456 may be quicker, but that is about it. I dont read armchair stats, I actualy drive. Its not about zero to 60, its all about in gear accleration and punch, plus the ability to change direction hold a line etc. The 456 is refined, heavy somewhat loose in the supesion, with an overboosted ps system. Yes its beautiful, the first beatiful ferrari since well the boxer, but its a pure Gt, something complely different. And I have often wanted to buy a 456 to compliment what i have, but people who take car of them say run dont walk, so eyewatering is the msintanance, which is a pity. If you want to know the potential of a boxer then you should know that Nick masons BBLM creamed his F40 around a track, same day same driver same track. Yes a BBlm is not a stock boxer, its lighter and has 100 more horsies, but the biggest change for track work is tires, and these days a good number of boxers run modern rubber shrinking that gap to a BBLm. I can write a disertation on why ferrari lumbered the bb with TRx tires, but suffice it to say the TRx is crap and the chassis can handle way more(as per BBLM) and this is an easy upgrade for street use, just as some put 550 wheels on their 456's. If you have driven bioth when running properly then you would know that the punch of aboxer between say 70-140 is pretty epic. To go fast in a BB you have to A. Know how to drive, B, know the road or track you are on as mistakes very unforgiving, C, have modern rubber on the car, trx's are crap, D, have the car running properly, there is a world of difference between a good runnign boxer(most) and a great running one(very few). From experience I can say that at somethign like LRp a stock boxer on PS2's will be quicker out of bends than a 360 slightly slower on the straights but quicker than a 355. On the street, if there is a 360 in front of you and you are both going say 60-70, when the 360 starts to go for it the first thing you hear is the f1 blipping and downshifting, on a boxer with the toque you just floor it, by the time the 360 gets its steam up you are already moving aheead. The thing about boxers is they are highly reactive cars, the throttle is sharp and can be meeted out exactly as you wish, the chasis is sensitive both to steering and throttle input. It will punish the clumsy. If you know what you are doing, know the car and the road, its pretty hard to beat, and on twisties no lardy tank like a 456 is going to cope. Just my actual experience talking here. Plus a boxer is pretty easy and simple to turn up the wick on mechanicaly/hp wise. But yeah i do like the 456, and I am sure driving 500 miles in aday its way better in terms of comfort than a boxer, I also can see how on big open roads it can be fun, as can a ZL1 camaro or even a TR. Boxers are machines reserved for the right day the right road and even the right weather, that is the drawback to an older ferrari. A modern to me should capture the magic, but also be reliable and fast. The moderns have very muted magic untill escape velocity, at least to me.
Appreciate a well thought out articulated reply. Different tracks have advantages for specific cars. On a tight twisty track a modified Miata might/would out preform a Boxer. I'd like to see times on the Nurburgring for both the Boxer & 456, where you have a combination of turns & straightaways. Making a rigid conclusion as you have based on "1" track is not factoring the myriad of variables in comparing two cars capablities . Glad you enjoy your track experiences, might see you fender to fender at the "Corkscrew" 1 day...Alex Fiorano, Italy (3021 m) Fiorano Circuit is the private track owned by Ferrari for development and testing purposes. It is located near the Italian town of Maranello. Built in 1972, its 8.4 metres (27.6 ft) wide and 3,021 metres (1.9 mi) long. Average F1 lap speed is over 160 km/h (99 mph) and top speed is 290 km/h (180 mph). Because it is a testing track, it has many different kinds of turns and corners, with corner diameters between 13 metres (42.7 ft) and 0.3 metres (1.0 ft). All in all it has a lot of similarities with most European GP circuits. Show filters Lap times (24) Pos Make / Model Time Speed (km/h) Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by 1. Ferrari LaFerrari 1:20.00 136 '14 963 / 1345 Fernando Alonso 2. Ferrari F12 Berlinetta 1:23.00 131 '12 740 / 1725 3. Ferrari 458 Speciale 1:23.50 130 '13 605 / 1290 4. Ferrari 599 GTO 1:24.00 129 '10 670 / 1495 5. Ferrari Enzo 1:24.90 128 '02 660 / 1365 6. Ferrari 458 Italia 1:25.00 128 '09 570 / 1485 7. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano HGTE 1:25.90 127 '09 620 / 0 8. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 1:26.50 126 '06 620 / 1748 9. Ferrari 360 CS 1:26.50 126 '03 425 / 1280 10. Ferrari 430 Scuderia Spider 16M 1:26.50 126 '09 517 / 1350 11. Ferrari F50 1:27.00 125 '95 520 / 1270 12. Ferrari F430 1:27.00 125 '05 489 / 1450 13. Ferrari F430 Spyder 1:27.00 125 '05 489 / 1599 14. Ferrari F40 1:29.60 121 '87 479 / 1270 15. Ferrari 612 Scaglietti 1:30.50 120 '04 540 / 1919 16. Ferrari 360 Modena 1:31.00 120 '99 400 / 1390 17. Ferrari 575 Maranello 1:31.51 119 '02 515 / 1760 18. Ferrari 550 Maranello 1:32.53 118 '96 486 / 1690 19. Ferrari F355 1:34.00 116 '95 380 / 1350 20. Ferrari 512 TR 1:35.00 114 '91 428 / 1473 21. Ferrari 456 GT 1:35.00 114 '92 442 / 1690 22. Ferrari 288 GTO 1:36.00 113 '84 405 / 1160
20. Ferrari 512 TR 1:35.00 114 '91 428 / 1473 21. Ferrari 456 GT 1:35.00 114 '92 442 / 1690 I pointed out this exact equality to a 512TR owner once, and he swore it couldn't be true. The 456 is probably the most underrated Ferrari there is. I've loved owning mine. 14. Ferrari F40 1:29.60 121 '87 479 / 1270 15. Ferrari 612 Scaglietti 1:30.50 120 '04 540 / 1919 Less than a second difference between the 612 and the F40! Can't wait to pick up one of those babies. So glad I naturally prefer the 2+2's. Still curious why the FF does not appear on the list. I've done lots of searches with no luck. Cheers, George
I'd hold out for an OTO, if I were you. I've got an '05 and I've heard you say that's where you're going, but I can tell you from experience that the shifting could be better. I'm really looking forward to either an OTO 612 or a 599 as my next adventure.
Like you, Bob, I plan to go through two 612's; an early one, and an OTO. I'd like to get a red/shields/tan Daytona early one, and a black/shields/nero Daytona OTO. I may put a 360 stick in between them, though, as I'd like to have a rear-mid engine standard Ferrari at least once, but friends tell me I ought to get a 550 instead. We'll see. Cheers, George
Walmart and Dollar Tree are resellers. You cannot buy a Ferrari there. Those that want a new Ferrari have only one choice. See the difference? For every customer like you that they lose they are picking up several to take your place. They are selling a dream that is in limited supply. Their model is working just fine and they are delivering a better product and service than at any time in their history. Ferrari is not for everyone. Enjoy your Vette. Really!
A great car, but to me one of the least attractive Ferraris I've ever seen. I like the look of the first 3/4 of the car. The last section? The interior is beautiful and I drove it and was impressed. I'd still buy a used one if the resale collapsed. Price does matter when I am not emotionally attached. So yes...
When you say red, you mean rossa corsa? There are a handful out there and they come up occasionally, but unless you're incredibly lucky, you'll be watching and waiting a good while before you find your car. They are few and far between. I think the 550 is one of the most beautiful ferrari ever made. Classier and more comfy than a 360. I've had a 360 spider and a coupe is on my bucket list, maybe a CS, but practically speaking as you've said you like your cars functional, the 550 does more better safer classier. I feel much more comfortable having that front/mid v12 plowing the way for my kids and I.
If there are what looks to be some spots on your driver side door, it's from me drooling over your car at the dealership last week - beautiful spec - absolutely loved the interior and matching seat belts. Did you pick it up yet? Sorry - don't really have anything worthwhile to contribute to this thread, just wanted to congratulate you on the purchase of your 458. Enjoy it in good health!!!
You can find me at one our fine establishments for the protection of single Moms, known to some by the term "strip clubs". I'm doing research for William H for his next visit when I give him the key to the city.
There are only 15 Rosso Corsa 456/456M's in the US and Canada, and I found one! I was looking for almost two years, though. I didn't know how rare they were, I just wanted my first Ferrari V12 to be red/shields/tan Daytona. There is a Rosso Corsa 612 with shields here in San Antonio. I've seen it in for service a couple of times. It's absolutely captivating. It has a Nero interior, though, and in a diamond stitch pattern I've never seen before, not with the Daytona insert pattern. It's an early one - no glass roof - and I've told my dealer to tell him I'd like to buy it. Very low mileage. So low I'll probably spend quite a bit to sort it out. Like I say, I've seen it in for service - not regular intervals, but problems - at least twice, maybe three times. I had a FIAT X1/9 in HS/college, and was in love with the Dino 246. The 360 would scratch that itch, but I don't think the 550 would. Like I say, time will tell. Cheers, George
