Ed, I knew this was going to explode for many reasons, some the same as why people value these cars differently. IMO, the value is fundamentally set by two major factors: 1) what the buyer is willing to pay and what the seller will accept 2) the recent sales (comps) Your $70k ceiling is a figure I tend to agree with but others will disagree, so that blows a big hole right from the start.
I would like to apologize apex , didn't mean to jump to gun, im just tired of all the bad rep the 355 has gotten over the years so I pulled the trigger, the fact is I really don't care where prices go as I plan on keeping mine for a long long time, I just think every car should be evaluated individually and not from a general formula, but if it helps some people here thanks for your effort.
No apologies required! All input is welcome, and the bottom line is Dave is right, any car is only worth what the buyer is willing to pay. In any transaction two sales take place: 1. The seller tries to convince the buyer that the car is worth a lot, and 2. the buyer tries to convince the seller that his car is worthless. If either party is successful a deal is struck. The real value is always somewhere in between!
I'm afraid to say this formula is correct. I bought a pink Spider at 20000 Usd that needed a valve job. Painted it red, which set me back 10 000. Valve job and major 27 500. Stickies and interior 2500. Bought a hardtop for it at 5000 usd. Only thing I now need is a speedo with 0 miles, but they charge me 5000Usd for it! But in the end I spent 70 000usd, which proves that the formula is correct. David
David, we might have adjust the formula for "Pink" cars!!! Glad you saved that one! I think there is mounting evidence right here on Fchat that there have been several non-salvage but "needy" cars that have been bought for around $20k. These represent the very bottom of the market, other than pure parts cars.
By the way, my $70,000 number for the top market was educated but arbitrary, any number can be entered at the top and the formulas still work, but it raises all the results, just as it should. If the top market becomes $100k or more the bottom will also come up. What are the thoughts about the current top as of today? I recently have been seeing ASKING prices move up $7-$10k from the recent past. For me, I'd want to use real sale numbers rather than asking prices, but those are hard to pin down, because dealer auction numbers will be very low and retail asking prices can be unrealistically high.
Hi Ed, Merry Christmas Interesting formula you have come up with. I would say if someone has to unload a car quickly the formula is very close to being accurate. For the casual seller it is a good guide line. I'm glad you posted a bit of your background, especially the fact that you currently have 2 355's. This should help people realize your not trying to drive prices down so you can buy one cheap, your just trying to get some ideas on how to get a baseline on the value of a 355.
I can attest to rough running Spiders going in the mid 20s. you also see cars advertised as perfect in the 70-80 range. this puts values somewhere in between so I believe one should take the median number then adjust, $50K becomes the real number average for cars sold. I've brokered two for under 30 this year and have a couple of clients holding onto the dream and not being able to sell because of unrealistic expectations. they have both received offers in the 45-55 range.
Almost makes me wish that I had been able to take advantage of a deal like that. A 20k rough running 6 speed spider would have worked for me. I agree that many F355's are trading hands at $50-60k, some are upwards of $80k. I am not sure why the spider's are fetching the lowest number, personally, I rather like my red and tan spider with the 6 speed. Although, granted that I would have purchased a hardtop 6 speed with equal enthusiasm. Mark
Being an f1 owner I may b biased but I would say that gts and f1 bring a premium most times but not all due to availability. I would have paid more for either because that's what I wanted but not sure everyone would. I don't think manuals will bring a premium because they are more common kinda like spiders don't seem to bring much of a premium anymore. If I was looking for a car a gts would be worth 5000 more and so would a well sorted f1. A spider would not be worth anymore to me.
Yeah, I avoided the whole F1 vs stick and also the GTB/GTS because they are personal preference and I don't think they effect the value much because people will pay the market value for whichever they choose. I ALMOST added a PLUS for 1995, but decided against it. I had to make a spider adjustment because its a verifiable adjustment, but I don't want to speculate too much on the market's thinking there. I think they sell for less because there always seems to be plenty of them for sale to choose from.
Things like mileage, condition, service history, seller and provenance are not car model specific as they apply to all cars, in saying that,I think your values are pretty good. This might be slightly off the pricing topic and I hope this doesn't irritate too many people, but this is how I value the 355 family. 1) Road registered challenge car 2) Fiorano car 3)The rest of the 355s Of the rest of the 355's, I think the most coveted or desirable (excuse the generalisation, I know it's subjective), spec choices below: Red over other colours Cream or black over other interiors GTS/GTB over Spider 2.7 over 5.2 (if 5.2 then last model year, although this is getting less relevant) manual over F1 Carbon fiber seats over std ones Capristo over tubi over std exhaust Test pipes/S.Cats over cats New/revised headers over OEM Headers Sorted interior over stickys and shrinking dashes Gold connector kit over old connectors 95 or 360 steering wheel over 96+ airbag one ..and now you can shoot me down!!
I'd agree with all of that except 2.7 over 5.2, and manual over F1. The 2.7 thing has been done do death but if we keep the discussion to price only I don't think it really commands a premium. There is a small group of '95ers who insist it's the only one to buy, but for the average punter I would wager that a lot would naturally just go for the last of the model run, making the last couple of years of production more desirable for them. Manual v F1 is purely personal choice and prices do not reflect any premium for one over the other.
That was my thinking too. I DO agree with the idea that the Challenge cars and the Fiorano cars need to be considered as separate beasts.
OK Brett, these are all great thoughts..but how would you weight them as a cash number or as a % of value? I struggled with this stuff too, and came to the conclusion that the calculator should just get us "in the ballpark" with some of these items mentioned increasing the appeal of a certain car, without impacting the value very much. For example a full Tubi system is a great add and costs the original installer $7-8k..but how much more would you pay for a nice GTB WITH the TUBI over a stock system in perfect shape?
I 100% agree. In fact later model run cars are always better factory sorted than early cars so value would increase the later in the model run. There are exceptions like 308gtb fiberglass. 5.2 is obd2. It is way easier to locate diagnose and find faults with obd2. obd2 give a wealth of info right to your smart phone. A 2.7 may as well be carburators. There is no reason to own one.
I disagree. Condition trumps all, gtb over gts over spider. With the 355 it is all about the senses. The look of the gtb is timeless. It is the modern classic. The sounds it makes are yet to be duplicated. The handling feel all Ferrari with the first functional road car aerodynamics for amazing racecar grip in a streetcar. Road legal challenge is only the 95 model with left over 348 2.7 motronic. Many 355C's have seen track duty rode hard and put away wet. Potential buyer would need even better skills than normal to ferret out good cars from cr@p. Such an issue would scare off most buyers and lower prices. Fiorano cars were all spiders says wiki and their enhancements were nothing special which could be put on any 355. The enhanced steering rack was not a sporting improvement but Ferrari succumbing to the pressure of one of many 355 complaints vs. the perfect steering feel of the 348 manual rack. We all agree that spiders are worth less than gtb's or gts so there is no $ premium there. The Fiorano of 1999 was the death nail of the 355 in competition with the new darling on the block the 360 modena. It was the final gasp of Ferrari trying to breath excitement and life into the final 355's. There is little value there. It is all about the GTB in the right condition.
I agree with Fatbillybob though, condition must get the greatest weighting. But then this applies to any car purchase, doesn't it. When I bought my 308 from an elderly Italian Gentleman, the first thing I noticed was that the car was mint, the second thing was that the guys Garage was perfect, the third thing was how he talked about every detail of the car and the lengths he had gone to to fix the smallest parts, how much he fussed and loved it! He then showed me all the old parts from his last service that he kept and the spares that he would give me to go with the car. I had already made up my mind then that I was buying it. Didn't need any more info after that and its been one of my best purchases. My 355 was a different story, there were 4 great condition cars for sale so I ended up going to my list and ticking boxes of what I wanted and what was more in demand in case I sold one day...needless to say these cars are so good I dont think I'll ever sell mine. Apex, its quite tough to put a % on feel (like my 308 purchase). I can tell you that Mileage is one of the most over-considered and distorted weightings, we all know that a 30-40 000 miler that has been used and serviced regularly is going to give far less problems than a 8000mile garage queen that has sat for years on end not being driven. On low mileage cars you might have to factor in cat replacements, header conversions and valve problems (esp due to lack of regular use and not nec bad valve guides) to get them properly sorted thus making them realistically less valuable than a well sorted 30 000 miler in my book! This is where perception and reality are miles apart. PS: While we are looking for a bench mark price of the newest Garage Queen 355, a mate of mine has a 355 that has done less than 200kms (seriously it is brand new!). He bought it brand new 2 years ago and takes it round the block every two weeks to keep things going and that's it, drives his other 355 for fun. I think he was offered R180 000 dollars for it but turned it down. He still has the 'square' wheels (where it sat for 15+years at the back of a dealership in storage). I think this is story is worthy of a new thread though!
Knowing what I know now, if I were to buy another 355 I would want one in the 40-50k mile range, with all the 355 stuff competently taken care of. I would feel happy paying $60k for the car if the cosmetics were great for a car with that mileage, and I truly thought I would never sell. Just one opinion from one guy who's been through the 355 wringer, but that's my $ assessment on higher mileage, fully sorted cars.
As a guy who has spent 30+ years owning Italian sportscars of many flavors and values, I can say with authority that this is absolutely true. Well maintained drivers are always the cream of the crop regardless of miles. Because not everyone shares this experience, and many feel that the odometer is an hourglass to hell, I took away $2500 in value per 10,000 miles in my formula. That means that, according to the calculator, a perfect 355 with 100,000 miles and a fresh service would land at about $30K. That's probably a little low, but it takes a special kind of guy to pull the trigger on a higher mileage car. I'd buy all of those that came up!
