930 advice please

you know, this is correct. the 930's from day one were over braked based on the performance they were capable of. a simple fix in today's work is an easy friction material change. products w/ high coefficient of friction are out there and the change can be done in two hours...

the rotor material is high grade steel as well and not crap ductile iron...all turbos can be brought down from 150 plus w/o drama. besides, who is tracking a 75-77 turbo anymore? they are mostly being preserved or getting $100k restorations.

pcb

 

"They are capable of locking up the wheels = more than enough braking power."
Pretty funny statement.
Locking up the brakes means loss of mechanical grip, uneven road surface, too small of tires, too hard on the brake pedal, and or a host of other things. Adequate brakes would be measured in the shortest repeatable stopping distance WITHOUT locking up the brakes.
205's & 225's are too small for high speed driving, and track use.
These comments were meant for for high speed driving or track use. For normal driving, not such a big deal. But I would up grade anyway.
Once the op states what he plans to do with the car would determine about how much he will need to spend, and what year may be better suited to his tastes. A daily driver is going to be a lot less than a bone stock low mileage garage queen. A slightly modded daily driver is a lot more fun than stock. If he just wants a 930, despite the quirks between years, any 930 would be a blast.

 

True...in an ideal world.
But, with old school non ABS brakes you will have to modulate the brake effort yourself in order to achieve max stopping power....as I am sure you know ;-)
The early brakes are not difficult to modulate, but under most circumstances they are able to overcome the ability of the tires and lock up the wheels. (even with track tires on the car)
Meaning (all things even) that braking is mostly limited by driver and tires rather than size of brakes.

I agree that all 930 are a blast and this is merely nitpicking unless you are aiming for track action.

 

Not every early 930 is being preserved, or at least not yet. Go visit the Pelican 930 board. Regardless of what year 930 you own, or plan to own, there is no better, safer or more fun experience than taking one of these on the track to see what these cars are all about. Due to the tall gearing these cars don't come alive until your far exceeding the U.S speed limit.
I use to DE my stock '78 930 running street tires to improve my street driving skills. In our years participating in PCA events I've seen real RSR's, 906's and a freshly restored 908 attend the events. These guys ran in the moderate run groups doing moderate laps enjoying their cars.

 

Out of all the islands in Hawaii, Oahu is the only one that has no track.

I'm not sure what kind of 930 the OP wants, but modded ones sure are fun! If not, he could always play with tranny gears as that really livened up my 930.

 

THank you for all the great advice.... Regarding the turbo look cars that is just not for me I will likely move forward with my search for a VERY NICE stock 930 .. I must admit I would prefer the early cars although it sounds like for my purposes the late i.e. 86 through 89 which seem to be more available currently...would also be fine... I will not likely track the car I will use it more for just driving fun.... I will stay away from the grey market cars ....
When I said I like the looks of the 930 it is because if all I cared about were power I would go for a lately model turbo..... which is much faster...
I fell in love with a 77 or 78 at a dealership several years ago and I still can't figure out why I did not consider buying but..... that was then .....
any other advise is greatly appreciated..
If anyone knows of a VERY nice 930 for sale please send a PM..... I would prefer RED but other colors would be considered......
LARRYH

 

true. the 4 speed 930 is geared to 192mph if you pull redline in top gear! shortening 3rd and 4th makes the car pull like an f16 to 170 mph ish!!

 

look, I was by no means making a global statement but make no mistake...fewer and fewer 75-77 turbos are being thrashed and many are getting cpr style full nut/bolt restos.

last, I am heavily involved in vintage racing and I have seen every priceless Porsche driven hard or even raced...that was not my point. I digress.

 

When I got my first turbo, I got on her and was astonished that I could do 60 in 1st and 95 in 2nd.

 

likewise...good times!!

 

ferraripete, No diss intended.
I believe world wide production for the 930 '75-'89 was around 25,000 cars. Bruce Anderson thought they would never be very collectable based on those numbers. On that scale, the number of true low miles, garage queens, or full restoration projects is pretty small.
My '79 DP came with a Andial 8:39 r&p. A much more useable power band. Though I think I would top out around 160 mph. I use to consider the stock turbo as a semi automatic. You could go from 0-85 in 2nd gear.

 

The market for 930s is changing very fast and I disagree with this ^^^ on several levels. While it is true that any grey market car has had a kph to mph speedo swap in the DOT certification process and therefore mileage is unknowable, it just doesn't matter anymore. A thorough PPI trumps claimed mileage completely in determining condition and value. Who cares what the claimed mileage is anymore of a '63 Lusso? Worse, the Porsche VDO speedometers are trivially easy to reset, it takes about 30 minutes to display any number you'd like to see. So I view any claimed mileage with high suspicion if not complete disregard.

Next, resale values of Euro cars seem completely on par with US versions as the hardcore aficionados appreciate the specification nuances. Finally, much of recently strengthening valuation support of the 930 is driven by european demand and if you monitor rennlist you will hear of many 930s repatriated to Germany.

 

I think your post is getting more true with each passing year...especially if the car has been well cared for.

bottom line is the 930 turbo is w/o question up in the very thin air and ranks as one of the greatest and most important sports cars of all time. there is also no end to the winning race pedigree!!

 

Ditto. My car breaks the tires loose in 3rd and 4th under full boost. Had to lower the tire pressures to keep it safe. Its a strange feeling to putt along about 40 mph in 2nd and then
s q u e e z e the throttle down slowly. F16 is a great analogy.

 

My modded 86 would light the tires up at 60 mph. Scary stuff.

 

Yep. I will get another 930, but its going to be bone stock and original with the exception of maintenance items. My modded conversion is too fast (for me). I hope the OP gets some seat time in a few cars because they all seem to drive a bit different. Much like comparing a early carb 308 to a late euro 308 QV.

 

The market for 930s is changing very fast and I disagree with this ^^^ on several levels. While it is true that any grey market car has had a kph to mph speedo swap in the DOT certification process and therefore mileage is unknowable, it just doesn't matter anymore.
Next, resale values of Euro cars seem completely on par with US versions as the hardcore aficionados appreciate the specification nuances. Finally, much of recently strengthening valuation support of the 930 is driven by european demand and if you monitor rennlist you will hear of many 930s repatriated to Germany.

We agree to disagree.
My reference is to US buyers buying Euro gray market cars. Typically the Euro cars have lived a harder life and have higher mileage than the US cars. While the Euro cars had a bit more power, those mods are easy to do on a US car, a Euro fuel head & exhaust, etc. It's very easy to change the odometer as you mentioned, but a good P mechanic can determine if it's a 30,000 mi or 130,000 mi car. Yes, the demand in Europe for US cars is high. For some of the reasons I stated above, better condition, lower mileage and the exchange rate. Both my early 911's were snatched up by Euro buyers at my asking price, while the US buyers kept trying to beat the price down.
While the demand is going up, how many are dealers/flippers scooping the cars up vs private buyers. Look at the influx of pristine, low mileage 930's showing up on ebay listed by dealers. Also, as the prices go up the pool of buyers goes down due to the buy in price. Look at the folks lamenting over the prices. These cars are turning into investment/art objects. (Who would track a $100,000 restored early 930) a lot less people than the ones who paid $20k not too long ago.
This is an observation, not a complaint. I've been a turbo fan since seeing my first one on a dealer floor in '76. These cars have always been undervalued, partly due to the maintenance/repair cost vs resale value. With the cost of the cars going up, more folks will start restore these cars, more business for the mechanics and restoration shops. It's all good.

 

Fair enough! All good observations. I've been wondering for years when the earliest turbos would mature as collectibles. Not only were they a very important car for Porsche, they were a sentinel car in the evolution of all enthusiast autos, and showed the way for an entire new generation of performance cars. Perhaps most significantly, their 'relative' performance for the day was colossal: It was a dark time for enthusiast cars with little else to excite the enthusiasm of car guys or show up as posters on teenage bedroom walls.
I think your right with the 'undervalued' comment as it pertains to maintenance, let alone restoration costs. One reason for the solid investment performance of 356 Speedsters is that it is an incredibly simple car, so a full points restoration doesn't automatically make you upside down. Perhaps one reason the very first 930s have started to move first??? slightly simpler than the later cars??

 

when calling the 930 an important and significant sports car...I wouls argue that the 930 is more significant historically than the 73 rs (I owned a touring version in 1986 but have owned 3 930's...ask me why!).

the 930 was a killer on and off track!

 

Pete, I am completely with you. I was 17 when 1976 Batwinged wunder cars starting popping up in Porsche dealerships, I was a car guy from birth, thank my awesum dad for dat! These freaks with a whale tail kept capturing my eye, first one I saw was Gulf Blue...I was smitten. I drove Porsches all through my BIG years, 20's, 30's, and been PRESERVING my gem 930 in my 40's and 50's. I owned and collected nearly every other significant car on the dream lists of everyone, but DROVE Porsche's, and kept them pristine.

I almost GAVE away, a TOP example last year, but now that I've held, I wouldn't consider parting for a multiple of what I was told was 'too high' a year ago. My black Batwinged darth vader time capsule car is going on the P-car elevator ride of significant $$ as these cars just kill it. Porsches are the next BIG marque after Ferrari to really capture the high dollar market, rightfully so (don't need to regurgitate why, we all know why).

I think Dino'esque valuations are next...don't hate on me, I can easily justify, but I'll leave it at that, unless anyone wants to hear it AGAIN,
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lol...mike you are a great car guy! and do yo remember that there was a certain fchat member constantly trying to shame you in to holding that lovely turbo? his name escapes but I'm certain he is solid gold

 

U were steady and consistent/persistent sharing your correct evaluation...I just wanted CASH for other things and was clear reminding everyone that this car would be worth much more, but it rubs everyone the wrong way when you go on and on about how great your cars are, so I just pissed everyone off, they wanted lowball all the time. I just went through this with the Mangusta market, being called a fool by the 'guru's' at being able to see 6 figures, went off with ease, guess what? Last sale $330k+

....but yes, 930's....there was nothing close for actual driving the roads with - PERIOD!

 

mike, you have let a few too many great cars get away...I think that 930 of yours should be a 6 figure car w/o question. one of the best original examples!!!