Have we destroyed the 355?

Just remember , the guys that are actually doing the work at the high and mighty dealers , many times are no different than the guy working at the corner mobil. I recently fired a guy who wasn't up to par , guess where he went to work , right , a new car dealer , and i'm not talking hyundai !

 

It's just another 17+ year old clunker.

If it were a competitive racer then I would understand top notch maintenance. Until then I will continue to beat the heck out of my 3.9 liters until it pukes all over the road like a 21 year on their B day

 

I won't agree with this at all. Dealers do have factory trained techs and most have been there long enough to acquire extensive experience. However, when you pay a premium labor rate, you expect experience, knowledge and efficiency.

 

Three point how-many????

 

We have a system that accesses all factory service manuals. a good mechanic, one with attention to detail, that can read and understand what he is reading , and carry it out , can us that information to repair any car. Turning bolts counterclockwise to remove , or clockwise to tighten and properly torque is no different on a 355 or any other car on the road.

I wont speak for all ferrari's , but mine is an inanimate object that has no idea if the person tightening that bolt is a 25 year old rookie or a 50 year old expert.

My guys out in the shop love working on my ferrari , know why? it's the simplest car they work on.

Hers's difficult , take a car like an s class benz and pinpoint a millivolt power drain somewhere in a mile of wire.

Pulling a head off of a 355 , that's child's play.

I won't argue that dealer tech's have good factory training , most of their expertise is just acquired by working on only one brand , and that's good , but its ridiculous to think that can justify 20 or 30 thousand in labor , that's small home building labor numbers.

btw, my one tech that works on my car the most, for the few simple things it has needed, is a neat clean 26 year old with great attention to detail. my car starts and runs dependably, i will post my vin number so if it is ever for sale no one will get screwed by buying it , since it hasn't been properly maintained by the stealership. lol

 

+1

 

When I bought my car the invoice was divided into the car and the service for tax reasons. Service was a major, plus rear mains and shift shaft seals, and a complete head rebuild including 40 new valves, new guides and 14 Ferrari reconditioned tappets. Service was done by an independent shop for the selling dealer and invoiced at $12k.

There is a lot between the mechanics llisted and the corner garage guys. There are a lot of qualified mechanics around the world and in the USA who don't charge outrageous amounts. And believers? In what? Mystical powers? By todays standards a 355 engine is pretty primitive. Yep, you can pay $12k for a major plus head rebuild and get it done right, or you can pay $20+ and get it done right plus you can believe that it was done better.

 

That's the way I see it, except I drive conservatively. But I also have a lot more respect for my 308 than my F355. To me the 355 is just another sports car and I will use it as such. I mean, it was cheaper than buying a new vette, Z4 or Boxster. And in the long run it will be cheaper to own. Lower insurance, lower property taxes, less depreciation will all offset the maintenance costs.

And for a change why not put the maintenance cost in perspective. What's a major? Somewhere between $5-$10k, every 5-7 years. What do you pay every year in property taxes? Income taxes? Health insurance? Own a boat? My buddy has a 30' sail boat. $1.5k a year for winter storage (on stands in the marina parking lot) plus $3.5k a year for slip fees. 355 ownership is not expensive.

 

This is a healthy debate/chat thanks for keeping it civil guys.

 

Do remember this is a Ferrari forum.

Most 355 owners did not purchase their car because it was the cheapest Ferrari on the market, they purchased it because they love the 355. Many did not buy $40,000 "Drivers", they purchased $60K+ mint cars.

Many 355 owners most I would dare to say, do not have the time nor room to do major wrenching on their cars. The 355 is a luxury for them, and having it serviced by qualified people who work on Ferraris all day is a necessity.

For those owners, dropping $20K on a major service is simply not a big deal. The notion that these cars can throw a $20K service bill has depressed the "Driver" cars to $40K-ish. Cars with needs can trade sub $30K.

A perfect, maintained, desirable color 355 is still a very expensive car. I personally know of three different 355s'- two F1s and a 6 speed, that sold in the past year north of $70K.

I thin someone who has spent top of the market money for their car and now are willing to pay top of the market money to maintain it are far from stupid. In fact they are some of the smartest, most successful people I know.

 

^^Good point. I think someone else complained that nobody else was sharing what they paid for their car so let me add to it and see if others follow.
I paid $105,000 CAD for my 1997 355 GTS back in Sept 2007 from Ferrari Quebec. The car was fully serviced and had the heads (all guides and a few valves) done in the spring of 2003. I still have that car, its the one in my avatar. Oh, it had 36,000km at that time and it has 50,000km now. I have done one major service since then which was back in Dec 2009 and it cost around $12,000 CAD. I haven't decided when I will do the next major yet since its runs great and I have not put that much mileage on it since its not the only toy in my garage.

 

There is another there where Barrett-Jackson came up as not being a place where Ferraris are often sold.

Go to this page, Archive Car List | Barrett-Jackson Auction Company type in Ferrari for the make and see what comes up. It's also interesting to look at the 355 prices for sold cars. They vary with car and time. In 2013 a black 98, GTB F1 sold for $70.4k At the same auction a NART Blu 98 F1 spider sold for $71.5k. Different auction but still 2013, a black 99 spider went for $74.25k and a red 99 spider went for $53.9k (same auction). Lot's more to look at. Sales go way back in years.

 

+1 on all levels with this one. Great bit of straight talking.
A few months back I completely stripped and rebuilt my high mileage engine. I was suprised at how well the engine looked through out from bores to crankshaft.
There was reasonable expense for the replacement parts, in which I did NOT pay Ferrari prices. I used company's like Eurospares and Superformance. For an example of the price variations, a set of piston rings from Superformance ran 1/3 of what Ferrari wanted, as did the main bearings and big end bearings ect ect.
Shop around and you can always find the same part, less the Ferrari tax.
As for machine shop work, for example to have heads and block skimmed it cost £100 all in.
These engines are not voodo, no matter how much scare mungering is banded about (usually by people who can only change the air box filters, or people who make a living from servicing these cars just to keep the cars coming back).
In my 15 years of ferrari ownership, ifor one have never needed to pay a Ferrari dealership yearly £1000 for a simple oil change and check over. I buy my oil and filter and check my own fluids, it's not rocket science.

 

20k to40k to rebuild low mileage engines, the smartest people you know, omg. this isn't about affording it, as i'm sure those people can , it's about being fed a line of crap by a dealer who only wants to get into their wallet ,scaring owners into thinking their twenty thousand mile engine NEEDS it. and an owner too stupid to realize they are being robbed. Read the thread about the 100k mile 355 and you'll realize engine rebuilds at 20 or 30k are just a way steal money from some egotistical owner who thinks his car is something special just because he throws needles money at it. I'ts a very exciting car that is beautiful in it's simplicity.

Putting it out there that it is car that needs that kind of maint. scares away reasonable people from buying their dream .


Maybe that's the goal , some kind of snobby mind game to make non owners feel they aren't good enough or capable to be part of the ferrari brotherhood. Maybe they like the way it sounds, " my ferrari is in the shop getting a 40 k overhaul" blah blah blah.

 

When I rebuild the top part of my 348 motor I will let you know how little I need to spend.

 

John go the reading show in May. Would love to meet you.

 

That'll be in another 20 years!

 

John
I have to agree with everything that you posted. A friend of mine with his 97 355 had all his guides replaced with two valves with a grind parts and labour was $ 1750.00 cdn
This guy that did the heads is no joe blow he has 30yrs exp on race cars and bike engines.So i am like you when i read $3000.00 labour to redo 355 heads what a joke..I dont buy into that ferrari TAX.

 

thanks tr512, i suppose some people won't like me for being the guy who calls it like i see it.

I guess i'm a working guy who bought my dream car that can appreciate the value of the hard earned money and can't understand throwing it away, and also respect our customers enough to not rob their money, whether they bring us their 97 mazda or 2012 s class.

 

Not a F355 or a Ferrari owner yet, but I have done my share of engine rebuilds with great succes I must add and I have had shops do machinework. I can guarantee you that head work or engine work will not cost you € 40000 unless you are doing something really special.

What is important when having someone doing machinework is that it is done properly. When placing new guides for instance you will find that the seats are not correct anymore, so you need to have the seats cut as well + the valves etc. It's not out of a regular mechanics reach to take the heads off and to take the valves out.

Then there are the things that you need to do with any performance engine like measuring valve spring installed height and matching valvesprings so you get the required seat and open pressures etc. But all that is pretty basic work in essence. It takes time and diligence to do it but that's it.

My .02$

 

Good read!

I know a few machine shops too and know their going prices. Some of the prices being throw around here are mind blowing!

I had a valve job and the head resurfaced on my Honda for $125. Ha!

 

i guess this topic just strikes chord with me because my business is repairing cars and i'm seeing some nonsense when it comes to prices for repairing these cars.

 

I've never met any 355 owner, not heard of any 355 owner spending $40K for a rebuild.

And just because some of us do not work on cars for a living does not make us "idiots".

Where I live even the independents charge $135 an hour. Things get expensive fast. I'm sure there are areas of the country where things cost less. And I'm sure there are cars that cost less to service. Not interested in either.

 

If you are paying $135 per hour, you should get the following:

-Quality
-Knowledge and experience

Hence, they should be able to do the job efficiently and therefore not take hundreds of hours...

 

You probably missed the post from exoticar auto , who's buying a 355 with a $40k receipt for an engine rebuild. posted yesterday

Don.t mean to say anybody who can't work on their car is an idiot , an idiot is someone who swallows the pill that their 29k mile engine is in need of a $40k rebuild.