430 loosing traction under full throttle

I live in Austin, Texas. It's been pretty cold here lately. Recently I've noticed that my car looses traction in first and second gear. Even with half throttle in first gear, the tires spin wildly. I usually drive in Sport Mode. I installed new Bridgestones last year. So the tires are fairly new.

In the summer, the tires hooked up very well. Do you think the colder weather is helping the motor to produce more power? I know the asphalt, when cold, doesn't offer as much traction as compared to summer time heat. Is this a combination of more power and less traction from the cold asphalt?

My car does seem to be putting out more power. The engine seems to scream!

Has anyone else experienced this condition?

 

Oh yes. I'm in San Antonio and the engine is definitely making more power. The cold and dense air will naturally allow for fuel and thus more power. And the asphalt and tires are cold so it is slipping more than usual. I had the back end try to come around in third yesterday.

 

Its the combination, but mostly, its the tires. What is the air temp when this happens? If its in the 50s or lower then it really is the tires.

 

You might try Normal for a little earlier intervention of the stability control system. Those max performance summer tire compounds do not work for squat in cold temperatures.

 

+1; summer tires have greatly reduced traction in cold temps. Getting heat in them is harder as well. They will be fine come spring, until then take it easy or use one of the more restrictive traction control modes.

OR just do what I do and enjoy the fun.

 

Hey, I'm in Austin too. Saturday was the day for driving, beautiful... have you tried 1826 down to 150 to 3237 and Wimberly? Great driving roads.

But yeah, like stated earlier, cold makes for more power and less traction. Definitely a different drive than in mid August!

 

Funny. I was on 3237 on Saturday...


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I forgot to mention that IC engines gain approximately 1% HP for every 10 deg F you reduce the intake air temp. That can be substantial on a 500 HP car with a 50 deg temp drop. 1% * 5 * 500 = 25 HP. This is also one of the key benefits to nitrous injection, the cooling effect.

 

Not sure why you're surprised. High-power, RWD car, summer tires, cold temperatures, full throttle. I'd be worried if my car didn't break traction in this situation.

 

If you saw a red 430 it was probably me! Several bikers out too.

 

Manettino in Sport Mode? It seems you have a problem with the traction control.

 

Agree. Shouldn't the traction control prevent "wild" spinning in Sport Mode? Mine certainly seems to.

 

Not necessarily. The sport mode (or any mode) does not take into account the air and/or tire temp and if you have summer or win ted tires. It assumes you have summer tires and the temperature is "normal". Thus it intervenes too late to correct yaw and traction issues.

This is the same issue with driving in Race on a wet surface. You can spin your 430 in seconds, almost every time. You need the correct mode for the correct condition.

For extreme cold, sand, snow, wet, stick to the modes that intervene faster (snow and wet). These modes also move your throttle body slower, shift less dramatically, and are safer.

 

First off, thanks for all your excellent replies. The traction control does kick in some of the time. Other times, the car spins so badly that the trans up shifts on its own... after exceeding red line.

I did notice that the tires will warm up if I spin them a few times. Then traction is excellent. Highway driving does not heat the tires sufficiently as one would think.

Before I relocated to Texas, I lived in Southern California and the temps were fairly stable and no where near as cold as Texas. In California, I didn't noticed a traction issue.
I guess it's a good idea not to always rely on the traction control. It's good, but, not perfect.

When it first happened, I thought the clutch was slipping on me.

 

I haven't tried this route, but, sounds interesting. Thanks

 

redcaruser,

I think the traction control is working fine. Sometimes, I think it has trouble keeping up with throttle input. I beginning to think that the summer tires are the biggest issue.

 

Definitively the weather. Be careful. Cold roads + rwd summer tires is not an ideal combo.

 

MM- You should know, since I think you live in Norway or somewhere similar.

 

Please allow me briefly the following notes (hope I do not bore).

Manettino sport mode/"normal" acceleration straight ahead: The traction control receives the input regarding wheel spin via the ABS sensors (measurement of front/rear and left/right wheel speed differences). With different wheel adhesion (cold/hot tires, dry, wet or snow-covered road) the traction control is working - of course - more or less intensive. The TC controls the engine power, prevents the loss of control and ensures a maximum degree of power transmission.

When you accelerate now out of a corner the E-differential (input about gas pedal angle, steering angle, yaw rate increase, wheel rotation speeds) operates additionally to the TC by controled torque distribution left/right. You can feel very well this regulation system, it's like "ski carving".

When you accelerate the car in the launch control modus additionally the clutch regulation (power transmission control) is activated.

If you are telling now that your car "looses traction in first and second gear. Even with half throttle in first gear, the tires spin wildly" in the moderate Manettino position "sport mode" then I get the impression that your traction control is not working properly.

But if you mean that there is just a different intensive regulating of the traction control, don't worry!

 

I agree that the Sport mode threshold for traction control may be too high to control tire spinning at cold conditions. But I don't think the traction control cares about air or tire temperature. per se. My understanding is that stability and traction control algorithms use actual real-time car dynamic measurements, such as wheel rotation and acceleration levels, to determine when the system intervenes. While cold air and cold tires make it easier to spin the rear tires, the threshold triggering the traction control (like the difference between front and rear wheel rotational speed) is the same as it is at higher temperatures, in a given setting (Sport, Rain, etc.).

Let me know if you think this is wrong. I have more interest in this topic since I totaled a Corvette Z06 last year. I am still baffled why the traction/stability control in that car didn't help me out.

 

This has to do with cold tires that get hard, outside of their optimal performance range. Be careful with your driving and don't push the car when it is cold outside. The performance characteristics you are used to simply don't apply.