Jalpa thread

correct Raymond, they are my old pics shooted back in 1990... you can add it in your registry...

 

silh proto is such a cool car.

on wallaces rallye, yes the fashionable F1 inspired I reckon would have work with open unfiltered carb trumpets but im not sure how that scoop work on the standard urraco airbox if the opening and ducting werent revised.

Typically the most efficient way to take in cold air on a production car is where the silh side scoops are. Air flow separate at the a-pillars and tumble back aft of the doors as i recall with the simulation and airtunnel testing.

Olivier send me a PM and i'll send you a pic of baraldini aerotesting this proto.

 

silh proto is such a cool car.

on wallaces rallye, yes the fashionable F1 inspired I reckon would have work with open unfiltered carb trumpets but im not sure how that scoop work on the standard urraco airbox if the opening and ducting werent revised.

Typically the most efficient way to take in cold air on a production car is where the silh side scoops are. Air flow separate at the a-pillars and tumble back aft of the doors as i recall with the simulation and airtunnel testing.


warm regards

hf

PS Olivier send me a PM if you like and i'll forward you a pic of baraldini aerotesting this proto.

 

interested too can't you post it here ?

 

Only a few of them....I have researched this

 

Ah yes, that picture was taken during winter 75/76......

 

I don't know yet the figures... speaking about the air box... but about the stickers tey are more than just a bunch !!!

 

we have to remember the 1st person to use the snorkel air flow was Bob Wallace while developpint the Jota.

Piet's recreation shows exactly how they were...

Paolo explained me Bob's Urraco 1st drawing snorkel was a kind of look alike of the Miura bonnet adapted to the Urraco shape
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the usa type airboxes on the jalpas were design to sealed for emission and evap reasons for the stinky dcnfs as i recall.

im not sure why nearly everyone here on fchat thinks high velocity in the airbox before the carb or throttle body is a good thing. the goal of the great airbox design is too build pressure by slowing down the velocity to build "ram air" pressure before then accelerate down into the intake track. Ideally small opening up to a large plenum.

 

thats the rebuilt replicas isnt it? did the original one off miura jota ever had these scoops? i dont recall ever seeing them on it.

 

Came across this Miami Vice episode today (Dutch Oven), and thought of you Jalpa guys.
The car is black and only shown a few times in the dark, but thought i would mention it anyway.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSRgQO7dIHY]Miami Vice - YouTube[/ame]

 

Cool Ken!. I didn't remember that one.

 

here you can notice them too, period pic...
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Looking at the work done by Wallace & Stanzani on the Jota, here is my summary :
* higher velocity stack
* big side air scoop
* 2x snorkels
* rear louvers to evacuate engine temperature radius

I can imagine an Urraco/Jalpa/Silhouette mixed with the same upgrades + Webber dust protection cap...
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Urraco rear louvers + Jota snorkels and Silhouette side air scoop could have been a better mix instead of a flat engine cover ?!?

 

The vents/louvres on the engine cover of the Urraco Silhouette and Jalpa were for the extraction of hot air from the engine compartment.
The LH side scoop on the P300 Silhouette and Jalpa provided cool air to the filter and airboxes.
The French Urraco and Silhouette flat engine cover improved rearward visibility.
The Jalpa flat engine cover addressed the exposure to rain.
Evolutionary improvements at work here!

 

nothing new... just production improvements we know...

My suggestions are performing updgrades "à la Wallace" as Bob did on the Jota... just imagine them. The Jota was impressive and quick, so why not apply the proven issues to a special Jalpa/Silhouette ?
* higher velocity stack combined to spaghetti collectors & straight pipes
* the 2 Silhouette side air scoops will bring more air to engine bay through new enlarged holes (instead of the 2 small squeeze holes in the body frame structure), playing a role like the Miura 2x door ears = massive air flow from both side.
* the 2 snorkels will provide additional fresh air to engine bay, like on Jota
* putting Urraco rear louvers back in place will evacuate more hot air than the flat one

 

Olivier, if you are thinking of buying a Jalpa you could give this a try, but please do not inflict this indignity on a Silhouette. Personally I would only use an Urraco bodyshell with its better chassis rigidity for such an exercise.

 

Don't panic, I will not modify a Silhouette... even if in my business background I've tuned hundreds Porsche, I turned the page of that chapter in my life... but I still have the open mind for tuning !

My reflexion is how to increase power without a deep engine modification.

In the Urraco Bob, the 4valves engine was removed and I bet it was fitted back in the car when it was sold.

Do you have suggestion to raise power and thrills ???

About thrill, with a lighter flywheel it should have a direct impact... like the difference between a Porsche 964 C2 vs 964 RS which has similar power.

I will also suggest the Bravo wheels on any Jalpa, with the shorter demultiplication of 15" rims vs 16", there is a difference... again in my Porsche activities a Frencg journalist spend one day with my team, we testes & measured impact of 17" vs 18" rims on the same car, same day with 5x attempts for each configuration, results were clear, better acceleration with smaller size, so better thrills !

 

Off the top of my head - to cope with increased performance I would use 16" wheels or greater [with lower profile tyres] to enable larger/better brakes. I would also fit adjustable gas shocks all round. To get lower gearing I would fit lower final drive ie P200 4.35 P250/300 4.25 vs Silh/Jalpa 4.0. I would also try to lose as much weight as possible - another reason for using Urraco shell.

 

a sort of urraco Bob replica would be nice imo

i think there are many ways to increase performance and it is possible to do it without "destroing" the car soul

P300 V8 idea is good: starting with an urraco chassis
a late jalpa engine is probably the best way to build a good performing car? the 3500 cc displacement is not bad to start with

i bet with a good exhaust, new pistons, reworcked heads, a good set up for the intake and ignition and few more small mods it would be easy to get over 300hp from the V8 without spending a fortune on the engine
shaving some Kgs from the rest of the car and making it close to the original urraco Bob or silhouette prototype would complete the idea nicely
i like some of the orange "recreation" details and in many ways i think it was a nice project

the other side of these kind of projects is that financially they are a money pit...i can see it would be easy to spend close to a good countach money for the car completed and it would be hard to sell it for a third of the money spent if you would ever feel tyred of it ...

 

oliver

im going to throw in my 2 bits... in the 90's spoken to wallace myself about recreating a urraco rallye out of a standard production car. he said the main advantage of the rallye was much lighter because it was based off a pre-production prototype. nearly nothing were interchangeable between the two cars body and structure wise. Urraco rallye was closer to 2000lbs rather than 3000lbs. he had mentioned it would be virtual impossible to build another one since the urraco were made from high volume stampings rather than the hand fabricated protos.

drivetrain wise the 4valve heads arent simply available along with the 6speed transaxle. the suspension, hubs and brakes were also different using peg driven wheels. the motor itself is highly susceptible durability wise from oiling problems under G-loads,..drysump is really needed. he had prepared 308gtb’s for regional races at his shop, one in particular was pretty successful as i recall. the 308 drivetrain is much more suited to run in anger than the fragile urraco motor. he basically said just start with 308 instead if you wanted to build a club racer to save yourself the headache and to have a more competitive car. As fors the 4v motor...its wasnt put back into car when it was restored at shop across the street from the factory according to Kaminski. i have video footage taken for me of the car in 88 when I inquired about purchasing it right before it was bought by a member the Japanese lambo club and restored. As the car stands today, there are few detail difference but mostly still same car as it left Italy…no 4v or 6speed box.

On your suggestions, how do you incorporate the silh side scoops without altering the ¾ glass of the stunningly beautiful urraco? Have you ever seen the size of the body opening behind the silh side scoops? They don’t look like the 3 slot ” black snorkel” prototypes. The arent open as you might think since there are inner panels blocking triangle opening. But there location being further forward would be an advantage to ingest cool air.

Im my humble opinion adding velocity stacks and spaghetti headers wouldn’t amount to much power increase in a stock urraco/jalpa motor. If you want to add power to the motor, I would think you would have to tackle the inner components. I agree with ivor that the easiest way to improve performance is the remove as much weight as possible. The 964RS is just that, 200lbs lighter than the 964C2 buy removing items. The drivetrains are basically the same but with more care in assembly, different ECU maping and the lighter flywheel as mentioned.

Im all for and support your interest of building a “hot” urracc/silh/jalpa but just bringing in more air into the engine compartment adding, stacks and heads will not equal jota upgrades (that car was even more extreme and further departure from miura than the rallye vs the standard urraco). But I may do those modifications also for the epic sound and a homage to the race inspired look of the thing! 

Respectfully
Hf

Ps why would anyone want to consider anything but the 15 bravos or bizzarini styled race campys? ...ywo of greatest wheel designs ever!

 

* Mov'it brakes are available with 15" rims, I don't want to use 16" rims : Official Website MOV'IT® - brakes, brake systems, braking systems: Performance braking systems

* the final drive suggestion is a good one 4.35... if there is still one around !

 

Oups... you inquire about it and didn't jump on it ?

Do you have pictures ? what about that video ?

it will change from the usual pics we see from Coltrin/Marchet or Pasini books...

I don't remember to have seen a recent pic since it is in Japan.

If you have new pics, we will delight to discover them !!!

 

since i knew of this car sitting in the junkyard and jim was going to factory for 25anni celebration i had ask him inquire about it. he couldnt get a definitive answer whether or not it can be sold to me or not. remember it has changed bit from the old days as they were now chrysler controlled. The car may have been in negotiation already since it was sold shortly afterwards.

Yes I do, its in poor quality VHS tape and it made me sea sick watching it because of the shaky camera. I suppose I should transfer it to CD one of these days. I always assumed it was shot at the factory but I couldn’t never figure out where. I recently spoke to jim and he said he it wasnt at the factory. he and pansini went across the street where they have moved both rallye and the very first 350gt proto. I think he said it was an old restoration shop and not the one at the factory when they used to service and restore cars.

some of the minor details were changed, modern steering wheel, seats, black interior instead of tan etc.. but the car is essentially the same repainted, reupholstered and the dents and dings removed. Not too long ago I was in japan and went to take a look at the 350GT proto. While I was there I picked up a magazine in which the rallye was featured. I scanned and posted some of the pics in the urraco section a few years ago.