458's successor engine speculation

I was at the dealer this afternoon to check the status of my Speciale (which still at 40). He told me that they have been informed that the engine in the California's successor (twin-turbo based on the one used by Maserati at the moment, as we all know) will pump out 580 HP. That's 90 HP more than the current one and 10 more than the 458.

Am I speculating wildly when I'm guessing that in order to keep the balance of power within the Ferrari stable properly aligned (and compete with the 12C and Huracan), the 458's successor should get at least 625 HP? But if that's the case, won't they struggle to hit that output with an atmospheric V8 engine?

Any thoughts / other information / different speculations?

 

I seriously doubt they will use the V6... More likely is they will take the 3.8 V8 TT from Quattroporte GTS. The GTS has 530 hp, so 580 in the Cali II would not be difficult to reach...
For the 458 successor: the 4.5 in the Speciale seems pretty close to what you can get out of it for a road-going engine.
So either they switch to Turbo as well or add some sort of KERS to the NA engine.
More displacement seems unlikely due to emissions...

 

458 successor will have an uprated version of the engine in the new Cali. 650+ hp.

 

It is a given that the 458 successor will always have more power then the California. Just like no Cayman will ever have more power then the 911.

The California will have 550~580 hp from a 3.8L V8 Twin Turbo.

The Huracan and 12C have 610~625 hp now, the 458 successor coming out a few years from now will have ~650 hp.

Configuration wise, it will either be the same 3.8L V8 Twin Turbo with the boost cranked up or a slightly bigger 4.6L NA V8 with a small dose of KERS electric boost.

I believe Ferrari will try to keep it NA for as long as possible.

 

how do you know that?

 

I dont think you will see the same engine that is in the California in the 458 replacement. In my opinion that would hurt the line up. I think they will keep the engine N/A and push out well north of 650hp.

 

At this time, I think it is all speculation as Ferrari is so tight lipped to customers and sales people.

I just wonder how Ferrari will address the future CAFE, fuel program mandates while still increasing horsepower. Who knows, they may take some of the Porsche strategy, with another model, and/or perhaps some type of 918 hybrid technology.

 

With the new Turbo CA getting almost the same HP as the current 458 and the Mac 12 c already over 600, the replacement will get a turbo boost well into the 600's.

I don't see any other way around it or they allow the CA to have the same power as their most expensive 2 seat sports car.

Unlikely.

In addition, you know Mac is going to raise the bar again.

Given Formula 1 is going Turbo, the excuse to go Turbo to mimic F1 technology for the next 458 is laid bare.

I'm telling you one thing: if the new CA has the HP of the 458, improved styling, a great sound out the back, and stays about the same price as the current one -- they have a real winner.

 

+1 im sure that ferrari will do a good job with their exhaust note. They have already proven it with the f40 and 288 gto. Im all for NA engines but i guess the time is coming to say goodbye. But then again we already said goodbye to the classic ferrari feel with the 430/scuderia imo. The 458 has just completely opened a new level of awesomeness and we already had to say goodbye to the gated manual. I wonder what enzo would say...

 

It's looking like the turbo era will arrive in the 458 successor... for better or for worse. But I will continue to hope for a 4.9 L N/A engine with 640 hp. That's 130 hp per liter. It can be done.

 

I really hope you're right, but I don't see that happening. They will need a larger displacement (having pretty much reached the limits with the current engine in the Speciale), which adds weight, negatively impacts emission and fuel consumption figures, and so on...

Here's to hoping that they'll keep it N/A, but my gut feel and some logic says they won't. The silver lining for me is that my Speciale might become their last N/A V8 ever produced...

 

I don't care about V8 engine as long as V12 still will be naturally aspirated, I hope that Ferrari will find other solution for V12 than turbo, I think that good idea would be replace 6.3 liter with some V12 with smaller displacement for example 5.7 liter, if they add hybrid system from Laferrari in total car could be much faster on race track than current FF and F12. I don't like turbo but I believe that Ferrari can make turbocharged engines very excited with good sound, unfortunately I also know that even if car would sound not enough good Ferrari will notoriously claims that this is best sounding car on the planet and if you try to deny this many Ferrari customers and enthusiast from this board will try to lynch you, LOL

 

+1
I share your thoughts Andy.

imo, the time of "motor systems" and "power units" has begun, the term efficiency becomes more important than pure performance. Therefore, to use just a high-performance engine without turbocharging and without intelligent energy recovery systems (ERS-K/H Kinetic/Heat) is no longer appropriate, certainly not in the model with the strongest racing relation.

I guess Ferrari would optimize for the 458 successor the CA V8 TT engine into the direction of the F1 power units. Maybe another turbo concept (single turbo with electric motor) including ERS-K/H technology.

One thing seems to be clear for me: say bye bye to the NA V8.
"NA" is a look back and not into the future.

 

I mean, California, a GT-convertible car with just 3.8 twinturbo V8
now having 580hp..that was V12 GT car's area isn't it?
for 3.8L (even it has two turbos on it),...
that setting will be quite tough isnt it?

 

The funny thing is that they could use a turbo for the replacement and the car could be awesome and we all wont care when we drive it that its not N/A. I think Ferrari knows what they are doing and know that the 458 replacement has a lot to live up to. I am sure whatever they do we will love it.

 

+1

 

Why does power always have to go up when a new model is presented ?
Emissions and acceleration are equivalent to weight. So if they would be engineering the cars in order to save weight there is no need for bigger engines...
But obviously this would be more difficult (maybe too difficult for some looking at Audi/Lamborghini or BMW) and of course more expensive than just adding one or two turbos...

 

They have to go up because that is what competitors do and it would look bad if the 458 replacement doesnt have more horsepower than the current model, even if they drop weight. Remember the McLaren 12c is lighter and has more power than the 458, so Ferrari should make the successor lighter and have more horsepower.

 

In the power unit development is still an enormous potential, a much larger potential than in the body construction. See the Formula 1, with the new power units they achieve an improvement in efficiency of about 30%, means same power output with 30% less fuel consumption. These systems achieve an energy conversion efficiency from approx 40-45%. To compare: a modern large series engine reaches a maximum of 35%.

Ferrari is well advised to transform all this know how so fast as possible into the new street cars, technology leadership is the magic word. I assume Ferrari recognize the signs of the times, just power growth will be no longer sufficient.

 

V6 twin turbo + KERS... ?

 

No way, Ferrari will never make the 458 successor have a v6. It would hurt the image and be a smaller engine than the new California which is going to a twin turbo v8.

 

I don't like idea of V6 in 458 replacement but after people from Maranello create first four wheel drive Ferrari in history - nothing can surprise me

 

Something tells me the 458 successor will have a NA motor.

I think the Cali successor might not quite get to 580hp. It will definitely be turbo.

I think Ferrari will continue to differentiate between their GT lineup and sports car lineup. I could see the next FF maybe getting some kind of turbo too...

I could see the 458 and F12 successors getting some kind of KERS.

Who knows. Just fun speculating.

Oh, I think it will be a V8 in the 458. No way do they change that.

 

I am sorry for the lovers of NA engines but the new 458 and California will be turbo charged engines. There is no question about it.

 

how you can be so sure about 458 replacement? you have some good source of informations?