Have we destroyed the 355?

I was going to say. I've been around cars long enough to know that if it aint broke, don't fix it!

I've had burnt valves before....and you would have to be completely clueless to not know something wasn't right with the car.

 

Talked to a 355 owner a couple of years ago, he had a 96, 355, had the exhaust manifolds done, valves, and quite a bit of other work, the bill was around 23 thousand. A lot of money spent, but now he has a 355 that is totally sorted out, and dependable. If I were looking for a 355, that is the kind I would want to buy, and even pay above market, because of it's service history, and care. Perhaps some other F-chatters can answer a question, seems like he said the valves were 500.00 per valve, and dealer cost was 420.00 per valve, do those numbers sound correct?

 

I meant to say valve guides and if pulling the heads and replacing them at the time of the major is not prohibitive I may do them.

 

Going back to the original point of this thread, as someone who purchased their 355 in the last 5 months after a years-long courtship, I can say that this forum does have a disproportionate impact on the market, because of the way the market has evolved.

In this day and age, almost anyone looking to buy a top-end car (the "market") will do research on the internet, and if you google anything about the 355 this website pops up every time. It is certainly the top English-language internet resource on the subject. The 355 is at an age where it is becoming more of a specialised purchase by a true car enthusiast and less of a status symbol purchase (here in England, the status-seeking "Essex Boys" will buy a 360, which for base models are now more or less the same price point as a 355, every time as it looks newer and blingier). The enthusiast types will do the most research, which makes this site even more prominent as time marches on.

Does that prominence cause the negative information on this site "destroy" the 355? I'm not so sure. There is a lot of crap and insider chat on this site, but those enthusiasts will know how to sift through it and draw their own conclusions. I came out of my time perusing this site being very aware of the main issues, and it allowed me to go into the buying process with eyes wide open. It also allowed me to ask some very specific questions that would not have otherwise been covered on my PPIs, and in one instance walk away from a car that I might otherwise have bought.

The other thing that I think will have a positive effect on prices regardless of how often guys get their handbags out on this site is the increasing number of car enthusiasts looking for the "analogue experience" that has been largely dialled out of modern cars. I went from a 997 GT3 to a tuned 964 for the very same reason, and I know a lot of people (at least in the UK) who are increasingly turned off by modern cars being too anodyne and too good to have fun in at sane speeds. The good looks, F1 sound and the "just enough" technology (ABS and power steering - same things that made the 964 get the nod for me over an earlier 911) the 355 has will ensure that it will be sought after by the enthusiast regardless of what we say here. There are more of these people every year (and just wait until hybrid technology starts to trickle down from the 918/LaFerrari/P1 into the "junior" supercars), and sadly fewer 355s. This phenomenon has had a huge impact on 964 prices here; the 964 was the redheaded stepchild of the aircooled 911s not so long ago, now their prices have double in the last few years as people have gotten bored with the watercooled stuff. I believe that the same effect is just starting to hit the 355 market here, which is one of the reasons I finally pulled the trigger - the prices have been steadily creeping up at the lower end of the market, and seem to have jumped fairly significantly for the pristine low-mile examples.

So, an extremely long way of saying that in balance I think this website is very beneficial and thanks to everyone who knows what they are talking about for contributing.

 

Was the dealer responsible for mis diagnosing the car?

 

No, as they ran a leakdown check and found a few cylinders low. They then re-did the top end (along with major service) and put it back together only to find that it still had the misfire on the same cylinder. Rebuilt the injectors (and replaced one) and the misfire was gone.

So who knows if the valves were a problem (and how bad they were) without asking the guy that took the heads apart? Based on the service that was done, the car looked like it hadn't been run in a while or sporadically and was going to the shop to be sorted prior to sale, so the leakdown results could have been due to it sitting. In any case, they did the valves and the owner paid for it. Total bill for that service was $25k but it was 12 pages long and covered a ton of stuff (major, valve guides, cv boots, injector refurb and a bunch of other small stuff).

 

Did they do your valves because they thought it was the cause of your misfire (only to discover it was a bad injector after)?
Or are you saying they did the heads as a precaution? Or needed doing?

 

They thought it was the cause of the misfire due to the leakdown results - so they didn't just pull it apart due to the misfire - it was misfire coupled with leakdown. They discovered the bad injector after they put it back together and it still had the misfire. I don't have the detail of whether they determined the leakdown was due to the valves or whether they automatically tore it down once they got the bad leakdown numbers. When I get home I can find what the numbers were as I believe they recorded them in the invoice.

 

355 owners sharing their actual experience, now that is what I call added value for the potential 355 shopper.

 

I disagree. Problems: inner CV boots get fried like clockwork every 5-10K miles, excess tire wear, grease leaking on to flywheel, sticky interior, oil leaks, $2K airbag ECU replacement due to absent low battery protection, weak motor mounts, blown exhaust, brakes squeak, parking brake issues, accessory belts get destroyed due to interference, random problems like radiator fan going bad, hot start issues, etc. etc. I bought F355 that was well maintained, but it's unreliable and frustrating to own.

 

Ok thanks for the explanation mate, glad its all sorted.
While Touching on the subject of injectors, the 355s have one of the worst mist/spray patterns I have come across. There more of a squirt with a mild spray. I am looking into upgrading to the latest injector technology which has a better spray/mist pattern. I am in the final stages of choosing the injectors. Anyway, I digress.

 

I read the comment earlier about " dealer expertise"

I just had to run to our local volvo dealer for a part ordered for a customer car. When i called , i clearly described the part , a wiring harness , that originates at the engine computer, travels thru the firewall , to the engine , plugs into the ignition coils and continues on and terminates at the variable valve timing solenoid.

Now whether it be volvo , ferrari or whatever , it's dealer expertise were expecting , right?

I drive 30 miles to pick up the part , in the box is a nice set of .......... spark plug wires.

Now the parts guy is pointing and clicking in his computer , calls over a tech , you know , the " expert" the 50 year guy , seasoned veteran.

His Answer " hhhmmmmm , i dunno , you can't get dat "

i take his mouse , click here , click there . there that one . now the correct part is on its way

that dealer labor rate $105 per hour

!!!!!!!!! DEALER EXPERTISE !!!!!!!!!!!

 

A lot of these sound like common problems for a 20 year old sports car.

 

Sounds correct to me and if I was buying a 20 year old sports car I would have it inspected. Determine if I need to address those issues or if they were already resolved and negotiate the price accordingly or move to the next available car.

 

Dealers or Indy's "driveitdaily's" result is typical. There are a few expert shops while many more hacks. People think records and service history is Biblical. It isn't. While hack's aren't such great mechanics they know how to "bill an invoice." I'm not saying anything bad about Ferrarisun's work or experience just saying just because work was done doesn't mean it was done right and the outcome will be long lasting. An untouched motor with miles is often a better bet than a new rebuild. Some would say I am pitching more "gloom and doom." Some would understand what I am saying is very true. Bottom line is valve guides done are not an automatic pass. I would rather have a 355 that didn't need the valve guides.

 

I rather have a car that needs repairs, me myself and I do the repair so I can look for any residual damage from the original incident.
A car 15+ years old I rather see it from the start myself. Original driven hard car I will take anyday

I just hate taking over after someone repaired something less then an acceptable manor.

 

Cv boots I included in my synopsis. I don't know about 5k miles. Not enough experience on that here yet

Airbag ecu due to low voltage. I had a airbag light. Had it reset via sd2 at a shop that didn't try and sell me an ecu and it hasn't come back. Did you really need an ECU?

Radiator fans. I have heard about the issue. No problems here at 21k miles.

Headers are known. Guilty

Stickies. I mentioned them. Known and discounted from purchase. Caveat emptor

Grease on flywheel. No issues here at 21k miles

Squeaky brakes. I changed my calipers and installed ss brake lines myself. Reinstalled existing pads and rotors. No squeaks here. Hardly a 355 specific issue

I will stand by my original synopsis. The major concern around the car is the valve guide/header issue. The rest is circa 1995-2000 crapola.

 

Agreed! Few however have our DIY skill set.

 

They'd be suprised how far some zip ties and duct tape will go..

 

LOL! Don't I know it. As a racer I keep duct tape in my body color to hide the track damage. 50/50 baby! It has to look passable from 50 ft. going 50 mph.

 

Eric, now you have done it you encouraged him lol

 

It's easy to take either side of the 355 reliability and maintenance issue. There is ammunition galore for it to be a needy money pit. There are also genuine and correct arguments for the 355 to be amazing trouble free cars (by exotic standards) once sorted, and it is generally known how to sort them.

It comes down to perspective as an owner or potential buyer. Each person has a different level of mechanical ability and tolerance for maintenance. If you are a DIY guy with 10+ years of wrenching, all your own tools, a garage and consider staying on top of all issues a labor of love you will not regret owning a 355 and may never get rid of it. If you like driving sports cars and leaving all the hands on stuff to shops there is great chance of regretting owning the car and there are far better options out there for the money.

Knowledge is power and in the 355's case knowledge about the car or cars in general can mean the difference between a 355 costing $1-2k a year to run and $10-20k per year to run.

I try not to beat the "355 is the greatest car on the planet" drum because I know that as a DIY guy my experience is probably far more rewarding and trouble free than the average owner. That being said, to me personally, there is no single car on the planet I would rather have or drive. I love it that much. I will have other exotics but only when I can add to the stable and not replace.

 

Point is , just because a seller has a stack of high dollar dealer service records doesn't mean that car is better or worth more than the car that was maintained and serviced by a knowledgeable owner or " corner garage"

 

Must be the car. I bought mine about the same time as you and have had zero problems though I do have to replace a CV boot next spring. I think that was there when I bough the car as it just a very small tear and may have been missed in the PPI.

 

I've never taken my car to a dealer. My independent shop is usually working on at least a dozen Ferraris at a time. They're in such demand that you are lucky to get your car in the door. I've stopped by and seen them put out a sign that says they won't take anymore cars today. I think he knows a little more about them than most. I'm lucky to have a shop that I can trust.