insulted by a kit car

Society has no problem with making generic drugs after the patent has expired. Nobody has a problem with reproduction GTOs without a logo. The problem is representing either as authentic. That's where the issue arises. It's being passed off as authentic.

With the GTO it goes further, as soon as its a replica its "not real".. and the owner is driving a "not real" GTO...

 

If I have a Picasso in my home the first hing people will ask if its not a Poster is "is it real?". If I say "god no" and I live in a trailer.. That makes me a lover of modern art.

If I instead say "of course it's real" and any Internet search shows the original in a museum in Chicago or Paris... Then I'm a wannabe liar that is deliberately trying to deceive.

If I try to sell it as a real in any circumstance, its fraud.

 

So all replica and kit car builders are now idiots and should be jailed or have rocks and garbage thrown at them? Why? You are classifying the concours level GTO replica as built by an idiot. No talent is required to build a replica to a concours level GTO? No skill or talent is required at all to build any kit or replica car? Really? You realize that craftspeople who restore cars fall into this area, too, as they are bringing a prior design back to an original state. These people are all talentless hacks and skill-less?

 

They may not want the patent to end but it will end. It's a legal certainty. Someone could make a copy when the patent expires but they can't use the original name or trademark without license. The difference is that people with kitcars, fakes or reproductions, always feel the need to brand them with the Ferrari Logo and name to fake their car as an original. There is no other reason.

 

Ask Tom Ford, Cocco Channel (when she was alive), etc, if they agree with that. So by your reply, a design is ok to copy freely if it's not legally protected!? Then it's perfectly ok to copy a 63 gto exactly. Any legal rights to its design (if there ever even was any) have indeed expired. So If you leave off the horse and badges you are now fully endorse reproductions? That's not what most of this thread has been arguing. AFAIK not even the fiberglass Fiero kits sell their cars with Ferrari badges. So by your own argument you endorse kit cars?!

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There are talented people that are good at forging money too. It doesn't mean they have a right to do it.

 

Granted, but a kit car or replicar builder could take their same skills and restore a car as the behavior and activity and methods are interchangeable. Many of the same things go into doing it. And a kit car isn't illegal. They're sold by the thousands and the companies flourish. But also what if a fake F430 was all the same but had no Ferrari branding or trademarking on it? Is the builder still a deucshbag?

 

I'm not arguing for putting the horse on a reproduction at all. That's clearly infringement for the seller. However, it's legal for an owner as long as he buys genuine badges. None of the kit car companies brand their cars as Ferrari. They would get shut down quickly. The argument is the use of Ferrari's car designs. It was argued here that owning a reproduction is theft or a poser, but it's legally not the case. That leaves us with the moral case. If you wear a copy of a Gucci, Armani, etc original with a Nordtroms brand label your no less guilty of posing than the Beck owner. I just don't see any destinction. Legally or morally.

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Is it a REAL GTO? Yes or no? Is it a real 246 Dino or a painfully accurate reproduction?

Every car has a VIN from the factory. Davinci didn't paint three Mona Lisa's. People can pay whatever they want for a reproduction.. i.e. a VIN from the factory. Duplicating a VIN ( I understand it happened with an early car by the factory.. I get that) is kinda fraud..

Go ahead and spend $2500 for a fake Rolex with a Chinese movement. Even if I can't afford a real 250 now... I don't want a reproduction. Others may feel different..

 

Ok, I agree from a purist sense. Legally it's, well, quite legal to put real Ferrari badges on your Prius.

Personally if I did buy that aluminum bodied, 4 cam 550 spyder, I wouldn't buy one to pretend it's real nor would I put Porsche logos on the body. (The engine, wheels would have Porsche logos if they were Porsche parts). I'd buy it to feel what a open cockpit "Giant Killer" felt like to drive (hard). The chance of experiencing such a car is just not available any other way.

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My argument has NOT been to badge reproductions. The sentiment here was reproductions were wrong period. If it's ok without badges, I agree. However many here seem against the idea even with or without badges. No company sells reproductions, kits, etc with Ferrari badges. The buyer installs them and that's legal. I would not but I don't care if someone does. It's legal.

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I get that.. I understand... But would you tell people or lead people to believe its real? that, is the basis of this thread IMHO. If I want to see the Amber room, its got to be a reproduction...

 

I think you are starting to understand now. A society decides what is allowed to be protected and problems that arise are settled by the courts of the land. If something is not protected, it's fair game to be used any way you want. If a company is producing fake Ferraris and selling them without badges to avoid litigation knowing full well the people buying them are installing the badges. Ferrari can still sue them and then the courts will decide if the fake cars are legal or not and if any harm has been done to the brand and possibly award compensation. And my opinion on fakes or copies that are made without Ferraris consent or license is that they are a lame endeavor.

 

You are correct.

Here is how the repro/replica market (which is growing) stays within legal bounds:

from dnaautoworks.com:
Home Page

"***All comprehensive Kits and Turn key builds do not include any manufactured identifying emblems or badging. Our body kits are designed to add a exotic look to an existing vehicle. We will not alter any existing manufactured identifiably marks."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-NvO8240i8&feature=player_embedded#at=26

 

Interestingly, its what the courts decide. Since Italians view ferrari with national pride, they could rule in favor of destroying a replica under ny circumstance.

 

Like I said, I don't plan to buy or build one but I don't think those aluminum reproductions with 12cyl Ferrari engines are "lame". I really would love to drive one. Not to fake the experience of a 52 million dollar GTO but to experience just a tiny fraction of its legend. The Ferrari's with Toyota engines recently in the news in Spain are "lame" indeed.

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I have no idea of what the point of this statement is. I like building cars. I can paint cars. I don't know how to paint a picture and don't care to try.

I'm talking about cars. Only cars. Not watches, shoes, jewellery, or imitation Big Macs. If you can't make your argument against replica cars without dragging a bunch of unrelated products into it, then you've lost the argument. My opinion of course.

 

Of course I would never say it's real. I think (presume) only a tiny fraction of the market say it's real. (Well I hope so for the sake of honor).

It was said here a few times the high quality reproduction guys always go out of their way to disclose the truth. The handfull of Becks, GT40's, Cobra's I've seen at shows always tell you what they are in the first few seconds of chatting. They are in fact proud of their build and not trying to deceive anyone.

It seemed that those guys were getting slammed here and I felt that was wrong. I've seen some really great builds. Real, fake, I didn't care. I just wanted to drive them!

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Oh you're way off base, matey Fake Rolex at $2500?! Where are you from?! What a waste of money! If you're going to go fake then don't pay high prices such as $2500! You can buy a good used car for $2500!

Luxury Replicas : Perfect Luxury Watches for blowout Sale prices!

 

It can also come down to the real intent of a company and what they manufacture. A company can make tuners for trucks that will screw up their emissions which would be illegal. They try to get around this by putting a warning on it that states "For offroad use only" knowing full well they will be used on the streets. Courts have ruled that the true intention of the company is that they are to be used on road going vehicles and these companies have had to pay steep fines. It can come down to a companies motivation and intent to deceive.

 

What if you bought what you thought was real for $2500 and it turned out to be fake? Fakes cause real problems and they hurt the market for real watches.

 

You like faking a real car and badging it as real and don't see any correlation with any other products? Then argue why the need to put a logo of a famous prestigious brand on a fake car. It is this lame act that I have always wanted to figure out.

 

The next question that needs to be asked is at what point does a pile of "Genuine" parts assembled in a different configuration become a counterfeit?

 

That's too bad. Appreciating fine art and design is pretty seamless with the proportions of car design and aesthetic. Copying doesn't require this understanding or talent...

Let me put it is way then. No matter how good a guy "replicating" an aluminum or fiberglass panel, he will never have the same measure as a worker in maranello at the factory fabricating the original. This is of course my opinion a well.

I applaud a hobby and that which makes a man happy, to each their own.

That $2500 Rolex.. Just an example intended for exaggeration.

 

That would suck. It pays to know your stuff. It happens a lot. Even in the collector world of guns, coins, watches, stamps, etc. Buyer beware! I think read that someone opened 22 fake Apple store in China. Not fake Apple products, but the whole entire Apple store!!!! WTF!