David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

I understand what you are saying,
But I do not completely agree.

A sale of one (1) unique item to
One (1) buyer is quite significant,
And can largely suggest
the prices of other items.

1) Suppose that a Jackson Pollack painting sells to
a museum in Sydney, Australia for $30,000,000.00

2) Jackson Pollack produced a number
of paintings throughout his career.

3) There are more painters than Jackson Pollack.

4) Most of these “other painters,” produced
more than one painting.

A) Ferrari produced more than one car,
probably thousands.

B) There are, and have been, hundreds
of automobile manufacturers

C) The total number of cars produced almost
certainly exceeds 100,000,000.

I) Although it would be hard to infer the price of
an “unmolested” Ferrari P4 from the sale of a 1999 Honda Civic,
it would be easier to infer from the sale of other,
low production Ferrari cars.

II) The sale of one unique Jackson Pollack will
ALWAYS affect the prices of ALL his other work.

III) Knowing the sale history of one (1) Jackson Pollack
painting will help with pricing even more.

IV) The condition of the P4/350 is well known.

V) The history of the car is well known.

V!) The past pricing history of the
P4/350 is somewhat known.


So: The selling price of the P4/350 tells us a LOT about:

1) The “perceived value” of the car.
2) The car can be compared to the desirability
of other known Ferrari sales.

All that by just knowing the sale price……..

 

The very reason I respect David Piper's decision for the future of 0858 derives precisely from his extraordinary history with these cars.It also happens, and it's not by coincidence, that I agree with him. You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to continue to try to change it. Regards, tongascrew

 

For europeans who want to see by themselves, 0858 will be on display at Retromobile next month, along with the Fiat transporter

 

Would love to be there.

 

I will be there! Great to see it "live"

 

and financially what did Piper make out of this ?

 

Thats his business, he was no doubt requested to supply a commercial service and was paid for it , just like we all do every day, do we all supply our actual incomes on fchat to strangers for no reason? and have to justify what we do to them as well? I think not

 

Your wearying syllogism simply doesn't work and I haven't the time nor the energy to deconstruct it. Suffice to say that Mr. Pollock (NB spelling) produced hundreds, more likely thousands of art works whereas there were/are ??? just three P4 Ferraris. So while you might be correct in thinking that the sale of one major Pollock painting for $150 million could have some minimal effect on the value of, for example, one of a series of signed Pollock graphics, the amount and extent of the effect would be impossible to gauge.

The selling price of the P4/350 would tell us everything about how the buyer of the car perceived its value but nothing whatever about what any single person on this thread perceived that value to be. And I see no purpose whatever in comparing the car's desirability to any other ("genuine") Ferrari sale for the same reason.

 

Main point is that, I'd have to think, that people that see this as not being the right thing to do with the car are mostly upset by an original car being made less original then they are with Piper himself. I would guess that most that disapprove of the car don't dislike Piper and probably for the most part respect him and the career he's had.

I feel that it has been mentioned plenty and by many, that the reason for the re-body is to make a less desirable car more desirable. But who knows, maybe they just love P4's so much, that they labor to make one then sell it as quick as they could? If it wasn't for money you'd think they'd drive it around a bit instead of just flipping it.

 

I definitely understand the desire to make this car a P4. I'd desire to do it too if I owned it. In the end, for me, it would be a 350 Can Am though.

I don't think there are many here who do not think the P4 is possibly the greatest car ever built.

But I think I'll always believe a survivor is a survivor and should be left as such.

I get it was once a P4. But with the number of P4/412P's (the number is actually quite high compared to 350 Can Ams) even before you get into copies...

Well, seeing that this is not only a survivor, but a one of a kind, wins the argument for me.

I feel you got to grow up with this unfolding and therefore the history is there. But with future generations I feel it would be nice for them to see as much of these cars as once existed originally.

Maybe the thought in the 60's wasn't for that but I believe the historic worth of these cars change as time goes on. For me the 350 CanAm is a car that Ferrari built that exists no longer whereas other P4/412's do. This is now a part of Ferrari's history that no longer exists.

What we have is a re-bodied car that is less original then the original car it made extinct.

I don't think you'd change my mind but I do understand why you would argue for trying to recreate this car for the P4 it once was.

My argument is for it's taking away a car that still is. Or was.

 

I find it hilarious that Piper is getting the credit for this decision. Surely Talacrest made this choice based on maximizing profits.

And while I think it is a terrible shame the last remaining CanAm Ferrari of this model and completely unmolested car has been converted back to a P4, I am more disappointed that such a poor job was done. The end result is an embarrassment and if parked next to Piper's #0900 it would become so obvious that all the fans of this conversion would be horrified.

How with Piper apparently involved and owning #0900 did they stuff this up so much? Surely they would have made a body buck from that car ... but they obviously didn't and just eye balled it through the bottom of beer glasses, I guess.
Pete
pslease note that I couldn't make a body shell at all, but I'm not a professional restoration company.

 

You need to have followed the entire process. The statement you have made is totally false. There was in fact a buck built, and that buck was created by digitizing Piper's car. There are pictures of Pipers car with tape stripes on it being digitized and pictures of the buck posted when this was originally done.

They were all posted on the internet at one time or another.

 

Yes I've seen the photos of the body buck (in fact reproduced below) but how can you explain the next photo I've posted? (#0900 and #0858 front views). I'm lost as the progress photo on the buck looks right but then it ended up wrong? This IMO is not a minor detail (also noticed the headlights are wrong compared to #0900).
Pete
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

And the rear (I've mirrored the #0900 photos). This is not a ride height issue but a body height/shape issue. These photos also again unfortunately highlight the mistake with the grill, something that of course can be fixed. I've also added a photo of #0858 in its original berlinetta form as maybe it aways had a different "face" ... unfortunately no.
Pete
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

My point is that posters believe Pipers motivation was financial with no knowledge. You may be of "no doubt" but I am. It was not his car or commission and as you correctly state "his business".

 

Well put.David Piper does not come from inherited or mega earned wealth.His business over the many years has been just what his passion is. Very few successfully achieve this combination in life. It takes the special ones to do this. tongascrew

 

This last statement is totally correct.So what proceeds it really seems to make little sense. tongascrew

 

Good points all! tongascrew

 

One need not be a matador or a farmer to recognize a pile of bull**** and proclamations of a like kind.

 

Yes solofast's post was accurate and correct, I stand corrected regarding the body buck, but can you explain why the end result looks as it does in posts 2688 and 2689.

I'm amused that you have so far ignored those posts ...
Pete

 

Again why are we taking about Piper as it was his project, it wasn't, it was Talacrest's. Piper was bought in as a consultant, nothing more and nothing less.

Talacrest surely made the decision to restore the car as a P4 not David.
Pete

 

Okay I stand corrected here also as I've just noticed that the headlights now look, as far as I can tell, like #0858's original headlights did when it was in Berlinetta form. So #0900's are different ...
Pete

 

I am sick of this thread. Prior post dated 10/28/13.

 

LOL! Now prepare to be REALLY sick….!

Talacrest Classic Ferrari | Ferrari 330 P4 Videos

 

Among other failings I'm a fairly skilled photographer. Your perspectives in the two photos are different (one lower than the other and to the left rather than dead on) making the noses look significantly different. Show me two photos from exactly the same perspective for a fair evaluation.