The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Enzo may have given David permission to build one P4 replica and copies of P4 (not P3) blueprints to do that but chassis # "0900" is a bit more complex. There is a 312PB that also claims that chassis number and there is paperwork to support it. The first owner of that car was Marion Chinetti and while it was made from spares after the models factory racing days were over in Modena there are photo's of it in the Ferrari Racing Department being delivered and the paperwork does say "0900". I believe a FCHATTER owns that car today.

Doug Nye mentioned the Chinetti 0900 car in the article he wrote in 1979 about David's "0900".
It's a good article even though it got a few things wrong such as the Daytona history of 0856 which Nye called the only original P4 left 0858 and 0860 being 350 Can Am's. Interestingly Doug notes that Enzo stipulated as a condition of selling 0856 that it couldn't be modified. The article also goes into the history of 350 Can Am 0858 and 0860 and the spare parts package. It also discusses P3/412P/330 Can Am 0844 and 412P 0854. It's in "Old Motor" which Paul Barber kindly just sent me.

 

Another recent event touches on the link between Tom Meade, who recently died, and 0846's original chassis which Tom had at one point as mentioned the pdf. I received a nice note from a friend of his who was with him when Tom passed. Among other things it mentioned:

"he (Tom Meade) was forced to leave the shop in Modena do to mob? He said something about leaving P3/4 chassis and others behind in the rush or something. Wonder if he got things back when the bad guy died. He liked to stay in touch with people who had his special pieces. Sounds like your a real car guy, like he liked."

Tom did and over the years we spoke many times. I'll miss those talks...

 

Having been around race cars since birth, and sat on my race engineer dads lap as we raced around in a march sidewinder single seater hillclimb car when I was 7 and watched and helped him fettle many a race car since, I have a fair understanding of how the race and historic car game operates.

I myself constructed a 1980s specification touring car from new, old original stock components and had it correctly road registered as a new example, exactly as per the originals 14 years after the last one rolled off the production line.

Like Jims, my car was labled as that horrible term "a bitsa" by many so called experts where as the genuine enthusiasts loved it, and still talk about it now, 14 years later.

My admiration for the car Jim owns is huge, as is the conversion back to P4 spec of 0858 it is such a pity that many people who come from a starting point of admiration of these wonderful cars vear off in such oppositly opposed directions.

Unfortunatly most cars are defined by the VIN stamped typically on the chassis by the original manufacturer, and once that is physically removed by the then owner, the remains just become a collection of parts.

I guess David Piper later purchased and collected together many such parts, produced a complete vehicle and as required here in the UK allocated a new unique VIN to that vehicle and it became a "Piper" instead.

Jim purchased said "Piper" and choose to then trace back its components to their original vehicle and has done a fantastic job, as close to the original spec as even ferrari could have done themselves.

He believes enough of those parts relate to the original vehicle as it is to now be back to how it was all those years ago when Ferrari officially scrapped it, as per the Luca quote.

As he is the current owner he is entitled to call it whatever he likes, everyone else can just express their own opinion on the matter, but that has no real bearing other than to any future owner.

That's my understanding of the situation as an interested outside observer, using that US specific term of "having no dog in this fight"

Fantastic example of a car to P4 spec

 

Dale your comments are spot on. The standards of restoration achieved by Jim for Ferrari restoration have set the bar probably as high as it will ever go. I wonder if the Bentley,Bugatti,Alfa etc people can equal this. Lets hope at least one of his creations will someday be seen at full chat on a race track. If the videos of Historic events at Spa,Goodwood Monza etc of P cars in action are any indication this is the ultimate stage to show off the cars. tongascrew

 

Spot on.Piper added a digit to 0900 for a couple of his other creations what ever one decides to call them. From a purely restoration standpoint non of these can compare with Jim's efforts and I am sure David would agree with this. David wants his cars to look great but also to have the life they were intended for on the race track. Two different objectives. That's the story. tongascrew

 

Isn't it possible to do both if one so desires?

 

or as I do preserve these pieces of history, exercise them regularly on the Track and the Road, bring them to shows, Drive them in Historic Rally's, share them with the public throughout the World, pass them on to my children and design, engineer, build modern race cars and race them real races.
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0846's 593 P3 Gear Box muled to P 3/4.
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Absolutely.This is really what it is all about. tongascrew

 

I very happy to report that 0846's 603 gearbox is in and working. Next stop Amelia Island Concours.

What a job Sal did!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSqmYwCVe14&feature=em-upload_owner]IMG 0612 - YouTube[/ame]

 

Too cool. It looks like you are double clutching each shift, I assume no synchros. I have tried that for fun on my 328, I was not very smooth or quick. It would take some time to get use to doing it and doing it well.

 

Sounds beautiful!

 

Remember the box is totally rebuilt with new gears which have to be run in and the car is not moving. On the road the momentum of the car makes it easier to shift as you can match the revs easier but I still double clutch on downshifts. As it runs in and we tweak the shift gate it will become easier to shift. This was a huge undertaking.

 

Three cheers for Sal!

I spoke with him briefly at the Quail this year to let him know I am a fan of his work. Good man - clearly a great technician.

>8^)
ER

 

They don't make them like him anymore.

All young geeks with laptops!

 

I watched Sal work on these gearboxes for a bit, and was seriously impressed by how complicated they are. I even made a few videos:

Instagram

Instagram

 

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IMG 0621 - YouTube

 

The above video embedded.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1TxEJL4g2w]IMG 0621 - YouTube[/ame]

 

Thanks.

 

Man that motor sounds more alive injected. Neat. Congrats Jim can't wait to see her

 

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Some more...
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Excellent! The work you made on the car i just incredible!