Oil Confusion

Shell owns both Quaker State and Pennzoil. In the US, Ferrari North America recommends Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140007500286_20130123090_5.pdf

Steve

 

WJ- Mobil 1 European Car Formula 0W-40, which goes in many imports, will work fine in your F430, as will most any top end full-synthetic oil in 0W-40 or 5W-40. I use Valvoline full synthetic 5W-40 in my 575M and many others use Redline products.

Quaker State Q Horsepower in 5W-40 used to be available at Walmart in 5 qt containers, but now that most engines call for lower viscosity oils, they no longer carry it and I am not sure Shell even produces it now.

The Pennzoil Steve referenced will work fine, too, and you may have seen some ads for it on TV with a Ferrari California.

 

Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 . Both 5-40. Robust with additives. Full synth. Gallon jugs. Turbo diesel formulation. Last time I bought some was $23/gal at Wal-Mart for the Rotella. They have the M- 1 too closer to $40/gal for the name. I use it in my 575,toyota pu truck,accura,tractor. Good stuff for any 4 cycle. GTS Bruce

 

It's hard to go wrong with Mobil1 0W-40. That stuff is my all-time favorite motor oil (coming from the kind of guy that would give such an honor)! I ran that stuff for 3 (4?) 10,000 mile years in my old Mercedes, only changing the filter annually, and the oil analyses came back just fine to keep on using it.
(I think Bruce's comment referred to the diesel oils, which isn't a route I recommend, although I guess doing so isn't as objectionable as it once was.)

 

Yes diesel rated. More anti wear, sludge,etc additives. Like oil used to be for gasoline engines. Possibly more harmful to cat converters. Per an oil engineer I know. Best oil to worse for any engine. 1-synth diesel. 2-regular diesel. 3-synth gas engine rated. 4-regular gas rated oils. GTS Bruce

 

You can not use diesel grade oil in a combustion spark car. The additive pack in the oil is totally different. You need to look at the certifications. You will be asking for trouble in the long run. WalMart has Rotella 5 gallon jug for $16 but is diesel rated.

 

So far 175,000 miles toyota pu truck no problems.

 

BTW M1 and T6 both rated 5-40 for diesel are also SM for gas engines.

 

Hi, Arnie,

I believe you are mistaken. Recommend you browse BITOG (Bob is the Oil Guy) regarding the suitability of "diesel grade" oil in spark-plugged vehicles. BTW, I run Chevron Delo 5W-40 in my 328. It is rated SM as well as CJ-4 by the American Petroleum Institute. Of course it works fine. I'm with GTS Bruce on this matter.

Cheers,
Mark

 

So let me get this straight. According to your friend the rather expensive oil I use, a 100% synthetic lubricant which claims to be specially formulated for high performance gasoline engines, is formulated by the manufacturer to offer less protection than the cheap petroleum based oil they market for a diesel truck?

Now I don't know what to do. Shall I burn my Ferrari, shall I kill myself, or shall I sue someone?

 

How about this this? Red Line Synthetic Oil - Motor Oil - Euro-Series 5W40 Motor Oil
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As pointed out, many diesel oils now also have API ratings for gas engines, as well, and many people have used diesel oils in their gasoline engines with much success.

You can check the ratings vs your owners guide if you wish to go there, or get really gutsy and use something without an API rating (newer ratings are designed to be backward-compatible). There may be significant risk of degrading the life of your catalysts using a non-gasoline-rated oil in a gasoline-powered car, and once that Check Engine light comes on, it'll be expensive to replace those cats!
API Engine Oil Classification

Or just get the Mobil1 and go about your life.

 

Since you are looking for the factory fill, this is the actual motor oil Ferrari recommends for your car. Ferrari logo and everything:

Pennzoil 550022576-6PK Ultra 5W-40 European Full Synthetic Motor Oil - 1 Quart (Pack of 6) : Amazon.com : Automotive

 

Wow, have to really plan ahead if you use the Amazon source. It says "ships in one to three MONTHS"!

 

That's what I used. I wanted to go with a "Ferrari Approved" product.

 

Yeah, it's crazy how high the demand has been for this Pennzoil Ultra 5w40 since it came out. Seems like all the car guys driving anything want this stuff. Half of them because it's the same as Shell Helix Ultra which used to be 'unobtanium' outside of Europe and half of them because they want to put Ferrari oil in their car.

If you live near a Ferrari dealership, they will almost certainly have it there as well.

 

I suppose if one is out of warranty you could use whatever you want, but could they possibly deny any engine related repairs if they find Rotella in the pan - btw my cummins loves rotella.

 

There is controversy about diesel oils in gas engines. It does work but what is optimum? How do you guys feel about this:

diesel

 

The article was spot on, if a bit misleading.

The problem is that is it so hard to find out what is in an oil, and secondarily that the correct oil for a mid-90s Ferrari is significantly different that for an American pushrod V8. The modern oils are designed to be very good (but not excellent) lubricants for American V8s with moderate RPM levels and large displacement.

The oil a Ferrari wants needs 1200 ppm of Zinc (ZDDP) at the proper viscosity (5W-40 to 15W-40). Since modern SN oils only have 800 ppm of ZDDP one needs to find more ZDDP as an oil additive or find an oil that has sufficient ZDDP.

Diesels oils have the ZDDP but have more detergents than desired (close to 2X). Diesel oils are just great for garage queens, and not so good for driving the snot out of the car.

Racing oils have the ZDDP and low detergents and are very good for driving the living snot out of the car but not very good for cars stored in the garage more than on the road. Race oils are designed to be used once then drained from the engine.

Me, I recommend any of the full synthetic oils in a proper viscosity range and add a ZDDP additive. I don't think there is a enough of a hill of beans worth of difference between the modern synthetics to mater.

 

Mitch,

What you say makes perfect sense and I have heard it before. As a 355 guy.... Specific to the 355 there are many who believe that the high strung at the limit design of the 355 motor makes for a blast furnace environment with little room for mixture control error. Mixture control problems accelerate, cause, contribute to some of the problems seen in guides, headers, short life cats. With the random occurrence of these failures throughout the fleet ZDDP seems to only make the problem worse for cats. At $5000 retail for cats the argument can be made for sticking to an OEM required oil. OTOH, the solution might be to make sure one's 355 really "does" run right and up the ZDDP as an additive. What do you think? Are their any stats/graph of cat life vs. ZDDP? If a cat lasts 50k miles running 1200ppm ZDDP who cares? If the cats die at 20k miles well maybe...

ZDDP in motor oil | Chemical & Engineering News

 

A) While excess ZDDP can contribute to cat life-time-issues, a cat is a lot less expensive than a motor (rebuild).

B) $5000 for cats is indicative that an enterprising guy with a bit of welding experience could make a descent profit welding up bungs and fitting to std <american> replacement cats.

C) It is an issue that is not as well understood as it should be because everyone drives (utilizes) the car (motor) differently. So a motor that is warmed up gently but driven hard may be able to take 1200 PPM and get 100K miles in the cats while a motor that is not warmed up gently and then driven hard might only be able to get 25K. {Or vice versa!}

D) on the other hand, those that never track the car (or run it hard enough long enough) may never encounter any issue regardless of the oil used. {Or vice versa!}

 

True but is there any data to show that a modern engine using the lower ZDDP SM/SN oils are requiring rebuilds at a greater rate than past motors? If modern motors are compensating for less ZDDP with new metal technologies then ZDDP in hot streetcars is just an unproven good sounding idea. We need good data to make good choices. I think your ideas and sound. The issue is controversial. Each will have to make their own choice and laziness will probably prevail.

Yes the job is easy and I have gone so far as replacing guts inside oem cats too. It works. However, the laws are changing. What you could do in the peoples republic of Kalifornia just a couple years ago is now illegal. Our cat prices have skyrocketed and now may cats can't be imported to kali. Kalifornia politics polutes the rest of the country. Even 49 states could not shut kalifornia power down and now all cars are 50 state cars using mostly the kalifornia mandate for smog. $5000 is the list price of a 355 cat. $9000 is the list on a 550 cat! Current kalifornia rules are coming your way just like lower capacity magazines and bullet microstamping, and biometric guns. Good cats are going to become valuable. If you have a low volume car you are going to pay through the nose. Unfortunately these laws are encouraging illegal activity making more pollution. Already we have many putting test pipes on cars so that owners can "save" the cats to pass smog every 2 years. So I guess a little extra ZDDP can't hurt now.