Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Thank you for that question Lone Wolf because it just got me thinking , if the P1 is too low for the road in the highest downforce mode then it is seriously too low for the ring .

That would mean the alleged aero advantage of the P1 cannot come into play on the road ( and by default at the ring ) against the 918 and LaFerrari .
There goes the P1s advantage , no ? I literally just thought about that .

I am convinced that is why the bug took the big sweepers better than the big mac .

 

You need to get posting some pictures / videos of this meeting, i would love to see them together, especially on the move !

 

I do not have permission to do that as explained in my original post , sorry .

 

Noted.
But I still feel there's too much neglecting of Porsche's advantages.

Long before the car even set the record time, Porsche product manager claimed that it will be faster than McLaren and Ferrari thanks to the innate advantages of the AWD and AWS.
This allows the 918 to achieve 1.80G of lateral force balanced harmonically between mechanical and aero grip, and its traction is far superior to that of LF and P1.. it is the GTR of hypercars.

 

...and therein lies the problem.

The three cars will barely ever be used on tracks by customers and the rare moments they are taken from their humidified tombs, two of the three will excel on roads around the world and the third can't use its party piece of lowering to gain downforce/aero because its illegal.

Great planning.

 

Scuderia - you have no clue how fast the P1 is. You don't know the ring time or any lap time and yet you've shown no restraint in your ability to turn a youtube video into facts. Lets call a spade a spade - you looked at a youtube video, listened to some marketing speak and made a conclusion. That's where you analytic rigor ends.

Let's walk through an objective measure of what you know (not what we assume).
(1) The P1 lapped somewhere under 7 minutes, the public doesn't know how much quicker
(2) The P1 by all subjective measures is fast
(3) Straightline performance has been published as well as downforce figures

Thats it. I don't see any lap times there, and yet they're sure to come sometime at some circuit. I for one, am eagerly awaiting these times. I'll put a friendly fiverr in the pot, there's going to be lots of eating words.

 

'Obective measure of what we know (not what we assume)'

We actually don't know that P1 went below 7.00. Mclaren have said it did and presented nothing as clear evidence.

You are guilty of the same thing you accuse that poster of. Watching a youtube video, listening to marketing and drawing a conclusion as fact when its very much non evidenced opinion.

Spade called a spade.

 

Ahhhh - yes makes sense now! Although it would make a good excuse for speeding tickets "But officer - I needed to reach overboost in order to regen..."

 

This could easily be driver difference.

Lmao
So you tell him he can't draw conclusions but you have ?


Mac hasn't gone below 7 until they prove it.
What a load of Crap.

They can't prove it now and will not be able to prove it until they possibly go back. If they do they've lied to the world for months and only would then prove that they now can go under 7.

 

As I wrote , both owned by same person and we swapped several times during the day .
Im ruling out the driver difference thing but as I originally said he has obviously had more time in the bug than the p1 ( and i was new to both ).

 

Spot on.

 

(1) I didn't draw any conclusion except that we need objective metrics.
(2) Re-read point 1, then reread my argument. Its all subjective until we have measured results.
(3) By your same logic the moon landing never occurred, we never actually witnessed the entirety of the trip, only the last bit where the government claimed we landed.

 

Doom: Can you please clarify this statement made in the above referenced post. "thats illegal on the road and it doesnt work , too low apparently". Did you actually try to put it in Race mode?

I have also questioned P1's low ride height, but McLaren and its engineers obviously have made this part of their criteria during the design. I just believe before one can jump to any conclusions as to McLaren's decision to run this low, it would be wise for enthusiast like us to get behind the wheel and experience this Race Mode first hand. It sounds to me, after reading your post, that you haven't yet.

They spent a lot of time running around the Ring in this thing in that mode. We may not know put they surely do know now if running at that height is effective or not. The Ring is a rough place and I know hundreds of roads that are smoother than it. McLaren by law has an obligation to notify its customers that operating P1 in race mode (low height) is illegal due to safety regulations regarding pedestrian impacts and headlight beam orientation. With that said, I would not be very surprised if you were to see P1's running legal highways in that mode. Time will tell.

 

True.

 

Interesting.

I agree.

 

False

 

Saw this on the cover of Autocar magaine and had to laugh - does this sound like a car that succeeded at the Nurburgring?

http://i42.tinypic.com/n1yqhj.jpg

 

Pretty funny. Do you think McLaren authored that Modena?

 

The moon landing wasn't attempting to beat a time therefore the only evidence needed was to show that the landing took place, and they did. Their mission wasn't against any clock. If you need third party evidence of the landings their are a number of missions of asian origin that have mapped the surface of the moon and noted NASA's landing sites.

Mclaren's was against a clock, that was the mission. I didn't notice any clock/times and I haven't seen third party evidence either. We have their claims and nothing more.

 

It doesn't, but it does make me think a little more objectively about the situation. I am displeased with how Mclaren has dealt with the entire situation and I am extremely suspicious of their Nurburging claims.

That said that really shouldn't reflect negatively on the car itself. Being able to lap the ring in a certain time is a great achievement, but at this point I don't think it actually even says that much about the car.

The P1 is clearly a great car, designed by talented people and built and put together by hard working and skilled people who put a tremendous effort into creating it. Their achievement is not diminished by Mclaren's horrible handling of the marketing side nor is it diminished much, if at all, if it is unable to lap the ring quite as fast as claimed.

I say that provided it as quick and wonderful to drive elsewhere as is it appears to be. At some point we need to just look at the car. Forget who built the engine, who marketed it, who claimed what, hell at some point even the actual engineers are irrelevant. The car should stand on it's own.

If it can't stand on it's own tangible merits so be it, but if it can then the rest seems pretty irrelevant.

 

Evo dismissed Nurburgring lap times as unimportant and now Autocar have followed suit. Sad to see but not surprising considering both are British publications.

I think we'll be waiting a long time for any German or Italian publications to do the same.

 

Let's not get drive train and vehicle height settings confused . Sorry if I wasn't clear on that .
I drove the car in the lowest mode briefly ( I had the engine and gearbox setting in the most aggressive all the time we were driving hard apart from e use ) . I was told that the lowest setting it is a track only setting . The car is too low for road use in that mode( selection screen actually warns you ) and it is apparently actually illegal In some countries due to crash/ pedestrian regulations ( sutcliffe said something similar too). The very high downforce mode is only for the track . If you can't use it on the road how can you use it on the ring ?
Maybe the ring car doesn't run in the lowest mode , you know like the 918 runs in the soft damper setting at the ring ( I am only thinking aloud here ) .
The wing etc is still up in the higher setting but you don't get the full downforce unless you are in the lowest setting .

Let's ignore the ring as we don't have a time anyway , I find it odd a car who's main advantage over the opposition is alleged to be aero/downforce can't use that advantage on the road .
Surely these cars will get more road than track use ?

 

Your post is well stated and very relevant. These wonderful machines will ultimately be judged by their customers experience. Isn't that what really matters here?

 

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Maybe you should join ozzindaus, who claims that 911 was not done by Al Qaeda (who claimed responsibility and whose memebers--hundreds of members--have admitted extreme operational details) but rather was a government plot.

 

Trust me , these guys all have a slightly different goal and the engineers are some of the best alive . Im lucky enough to have driven 2 of the three , I can say hand on heart it's mission accomplished for the p1 and 918 . The ring thing has been handled badly but if I had a p1 do you think I'd give a flying funk?
Exactly