Carrera GT vs. 599 GTO

Anyone here owns and/or has driven extensively both the 599 GTO and the Carrera GT?

Both cars are available in Europe at similar price points.

Opinions?

 

To me they are very different cars .
I prefer the Cgt , it a more raw , involving , analogue experience . However it requires a lot more time , skill and effort to extract the best from the carrera gt .
The Ferrari is fantastic , has the gto name and history on its shoulders and is one of the last non double clutch gearbox ferraris ( if not the last ) .
Try them both if you can , think about the use you have planned for the car before hand and you will decide within a couple of miles , as I said they are more different than perhaps one realises .
Having said all that , I think the gt is the bastard son of the f50 , there will never be it's like again and is a fantastic last hurrah for the manual , minimum electronics supercars and thus gets my vote surprisingly easily .

 

Had a chance to spend a week in each (about 5 years apart but memories are still vivid).
Definitely had more fun and satisfaction in GTO,it fit me much,much better too (6'5",225lbs),CGT had an edge in sound and had superior fit and finish (IMO).
The latter though,was not an easy car to drive,I just could not bond with it as quickly as with the Ferrari,maybe should spend more time in it to learn all it's quirks.
To be honest,it felt a bit frustrating to me not to be able to fully enjoy CGT performance,instead of driving it with much,much more attention then the GTO(I felt like I was constantly on edge of losing control,even with my 2 years in rally circuit (1980,81) and all levels of Ferrari Pilota Courses.
They are at different price levels here in US (GTO is higher) but it would be impossible to predict their future values,in my opinion they may experience very similar growth.
Would be interesting to hear from guys who spent more time with both,including some track driving too.

 

Thank you for your replies. Interesting thoughts.

I drove a friend's GTO twice.
I drove it the second time shortly after ordering an F12. Result being that I cancelled the F12 order because the GTO felt so much more special.
I simply love the GTO. The sounds, the gearbox...the chassis...love it all.

I never drove the Carrera GT...but I find myself magnetically attracted to it for a number of reasons. The fact that that it's likely to be the last supercar with a manual gearbox being one of them.

I read much about the CGT's famous "trickiness"...but I also read that the new Michelin Super Sports make the car much more confidence inspiring? I should probably find a way to drive a CGT...but I fear that it's kind of car that can't be "understood" in a 30 min test drive.

 

A bit off topic, but why does the Carrera GT get the "the last supercar" title when you also have:
- Murcielago SV w/ 6 speed
- Pagani Zonda w/ 6 speed

...both made after the Carrera GT's production ended.

Others that must be mentioned:
- Koenigsegg CC-series w/ 6 speed (supercharged)
- Noble M600 (turbocharged)

Sorry for the derailing, I keep seeing the same "last supercar" thing every single time the Carrera GT is mentioned in a thread and I don't get it.

 

The CGT is one of my favourite cars ever made, and that's coming from someone that hasn't got a real connection with Porsche's (save for the GT RS models and the CGT).

The new michelins apparently give 10% more grip/feel, according to a statement.

I would drive one with the new tired fitted and move from there.

The CGT is definitely one of the rawest supercars build in the last 20 years. Value will surely go up in years. F1/Le Mans derived engine, void of most electronics, and looks absolutely stunning.

 

I have them both right now. The carrera gt is the most recent. The GTO is easier to drive. I would echo what someone else pointed out that it is a bit frustrating to drive the CGT. I don't have actual racing experience but I am an experienced DE guy with both Porsche and Ferrari. I plan on taking the CGT in the spring and maybe trying both within a short time of each other on the same track. I absolutely loved the GTO on the track. It is perfect.

There is no contest in practicality. The GTO is a car you can go out to dinner with your wife. The CGT, not so much. Much lower, (seat wise and clearance wise). Clutch difficulty makes valet a non starter. About the only edge the CGTg would have is being able to be open air.

Looks are obviously subjective, but the CGT is a spaceship whilst the GTO can drive like a spaceship but looks to most eyes like a base 599.

Sound I would give the GTO an edge as it is more polished. (So far I listen to the GT at low speeds and wonder if something is broken as it is so mechanical). Both very cool though.

Finally I like having the combo of 6 speed and paddles. I like the metal gates, but functionally I think the Porsche mechanical gearbox is better.

My 0.02. YMMV

Mario

 

The only complaint I had with the CGT was the exhaust. I thought it was too muted and didn't suit the styling of the car. I fixed that with a Kreissieg exhaust and now it is the best sounding car bar none! The clutch certainly takes some time to get used to. There are no lazy shifts with this car so it is not the one you take out for a cruise. It is a true drivers car and the more time you spend with it the more you understand and appreciate its capabilities.

The GTO is more versatile, the cabin is larger, and you can drive it fast very quickly. You don't need to change a thing out of the box. The learning curve is much shorter. You are not studying the angle of driveways and height of speed bumps in Google Maps like you have to with the CGT. It's easier to take this car anywhere. If you are tall, you will fit in this car. This is not true with the CGT.

The cars are built for two different kinds of drivers IMO.

 

it's because the CGT is held in higher regard than those you mentioned.

 

I drove both. The CGT felt more special and more playful. They both sound awesome. The CGT sound being more beautiful but the GTO more aggressive. The gb in the CGT is a joy to use once you understand how to use the clutch. It also felt more planted than the GTO. Maybe the GTO/599 is a tad to big to be playful.

In any case, cant go wrong with either. How much are CGTs in europe with low mileage and non silver?

 

Gentlemen , remember the majority of USA carrera gt's handle much much worse than the European counterparts .
Most were ordered with higher drop links which alters the cog and driving characteristics no end .

Check dampers for leaks ( fluid very fine ) , check drop links( replace if necessary) , get a good geo and fit super sports and you have the finest car man ever made .

 

glad you are enjoying it

 

This is a great little thread. An interesting question and rational, knowledgeable responses on topic.

 

I actually own both. I’ve owned the C-GT from new, since 2005, and tracked it a lot. As well, I have owned the GTO from new, since 2011, and have equally tracked it.

Actually, they are two entirely different cars from two different eras.

The C-GT a mid-engine V10 5.7L, 612hp super car weighing ~ 3042 lbs with virtually no electronics except ABS and a traction control light that virtually does nothing but blink on and off all the while when you’re on the track. The C-GT is just blazingly raw, fast, go kart like and visceral.

The GTO is a front engine V12 6.0L, 661hp super car weighing ~3540 lbs with all the computers and safety features to allow you to drive blazingly fast and doing the best to keep you as safe a possible, barring you going into a turn way to hot ("sorry babe you’’re on your own there, the physics are the physics.”). The 599GTO is just blazingly, fast, GT like and visceral.

Personal Driving Experience Carrara GT:
The C-GT is the most raw, accurate and well behaved street track car with a manual stick shift I’ve ever driven. The location of the shifter, the clutch engagement, the quickness and the accurate mechanical feel are so true it just becomes part of your body and you almost never know you were shifting up and down gears. It is just a symphony of muscle memory motor motions to attack the track. (I remember giving and experienced driver a ride with some hot laps and he commented, “I really feel engaged watching all that you do going up and down gears, one hand on the steering wheel while shifting, matching revs, accelerating, hard braking, balancing the car…just fun to feel and watch versus going on hot laps with a person flipping the paddle shifters.) In the esses, you could toss the C-GT and it would just absolutely stay with you. When the car started to let loose in a turn it did so neutrally, gracefully and predictably to where you could bring it back in. DON”T LIFT though! As with any race car, if you are at the edge of adhesion in a turn and you lift, you will end up off the track in an instant, again, you're on your own babe. As you cross the apex of the turn, it is fun to squeeze on the power until the car is straight enough to floor it. Squeeze it on too soon and the C-GT starts to let loose, again, in a balanced and neutral way so you can gently back off the throttle and pull it back in. The car just balances beautifully at the limit. Now, just for reference, I’m no real race car driver, but to be safe and not do something stupid in my super cars, I did complete all the Jim Russell Advance racing school courses, as well as the Skip Barber Advanced racing school courses, the Ferrari Politi program and am personally a 8 tenths track driver, versus the guys that like to go ten tenths all the time. I love to drive my super cars hard to appreciate them but don’t want to break my toy or me.
Looks wise, the C-GT exterior is sheer super car. The interior is elegant, serious and purposeful. Can't help but love it.

Personal Driving Experience 599GTO:
The 599GTO is a very special modern fully electronic track-road-car-rocket. Get to the apex of a turn and just MASH the accelerator to the floor. All the magic of the electronic gizmos will engage and do everything possible to keep the car on the track and give you the thrill of eye peeling acceleration. Point it in through the esses and it is just there. Everything is just so well matched, the engine, F1 transmission, suspension, it all plays soooo well together. And, the machine noise (not exhaust note) is sheer bliss to listen to. You just feel the 599GTO is a part of you, an extension of your body (the 599 GTO and 599 GTB are entirely different cars, I owned both at the same time). With all the mid engine cars these days, 458, 430, 360 etc. the 599GTO "is" a front engine V12 and it takes a little time to get used to the dynamics of taking advantage of all the superb tuning and electronics. Once you aclimate to the front engine weight dynamics and physics the experience is absolutely thrilling. At the limit, you do feel the effect of the extra 500 lbs of weight versus the lighter C-GT. The brakes on the 599GTO stop on a dime so you can get right on the tail of another track car confident that you are sufficiently braked. Much better than the first generation ceramic brakes of the C-GT, which work better when they are warm. The interior is sophisticated, modern, comfortable and purposeful. All the electronic gizmos on the left hand screen, though cool, I never use. Too much fun just driving the machine.

Street driving the Carrera GT:
One of the issues with the C-GT is its low profile. You have to plan your trips to make sure where you park there will be a low driveway to not scrape the front end spoiler. There is no problem driving into or out of any modern day gas station, they all have long gradual drive ways.
Regarding all the talk of the C-GT being hard to start from a stop sign because of the 7 inch clutch, it's all media hype. Owners who have read their C-GT owners manual know that you don't have to do anything to get the car going, just put it in gear, keep your foot off the accelerator, let the clutch out slowly and the computers will perfectly match the throttle to give you a smooth engagement. I have not had any trouble taking the C-GT up and down even the steepest hills in San Francisco. On an incline, one hand on the hand brake, foot off the foot brake, foot off the gas pedal, slowly release the clutch, the throttle engages...and you are off...!
Because the engine was derived from the LeMans race engine, there is no sound deadening from the engine noise (not the exhaust note). You hear the rattling of the timing chains pulling on the crank and cam shafts reminding you, you are taming a road missile. The exhaust note is interesting from the interior, sort of muffled until you get above 6000rpms, then it goes sonic, penetrating, formula 1 like, exotic. People have told me from the outside, the exhaust note is just mesmerizing.

Street driving the 599GTO:
Similar to the C-GT, the 599GTO has a very low profile. Again, you have to plan your trips to make sure where you park there is a low driveway to not scrape the front end spoiler. There is no problem driving into or out of any modern day gas station, they all have long gradual drive ways. In sport or race mode, the 599GTO around town is as simple to drive as any modern car. I often close the windows, put it in sport mode to soften the exhaust note, and just listen to all the engine and gear noises and symphony of mechanical utterings when going up and down the gears through the twisties. Put it in race mode and the exhaust barks at you as it perfectly matches engine revs to the transmission gear box with each up and down shift...bliss! And, when you get past 6000rpm the exhaust note is like a wild destructive rage of sound, angry, screaming and violent with sheer force and power.

On ownership, jumping between cars for a quick spin in the city or countryside.
The key to being safe when taking these cars out for a spin is to respect the 7 years of automotive electronics development between them. Take the 599GTO out for a fun any day spirited drive and when you swap into the C-GT right after, dial your head back remembering you have to drive the special car respecting all the laws of physics because there are no magical safety nets. As well, after a spirited jaunt in a C-GT, when jumping into the 599GTO right after, be mindful that this is a a front engine car and 500+ heavier. While the electronics will help keep you safe, they'll do no good if you go too hot into a turn.

Issues & Maintenance:
Knock on wood, I have had no major reliability issues with the C-GT or 599GTO. They are both rock solid reliable modern day exotics. Fortunately, I have not had to replace anything on the C-GT. On the 599GTO I have had to replace two of the titanium wheels, to date, due to potholes on our ill maintained California highways. I have special ramps made that i use each time I take the 599GTO or C-GT out of the garage for a fun drive. The other cars don't need them because angling into the driveway works fine.

A night out with your favorite honey:
For the ladies, on your special night out, it is easier and more elegant to exit from the 599GTO than a C-GT.

Buying:
On buying a C-CT, there is everything to love about it.
On buying a 598GTO, there is everything to love about it with comfort.

 

Interesting. What where the reasons for this that American CGT's where mostly ordered with the higher drop links?

 

I believe it's a ground clearance / ease of use issue .
My carrera gt had the longer drop links , even though it's a uk car( first owner ordered them ) I had Porsche change them to the uk spec then it handled like my first car .

It's no big deal but it does handle significantly better and enables more aggressive geo settings , with the addition of super sports the car is transformed . You do lose around 2 cm of ground clearance though .

 

Heres a picture of the longer droplinks ( note the H + 10 markings , if your car has these then it is running the longer droplinks ) .
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Thanks.

I'd rather scrape scrape than end up backwards involuntarily hugging a tree....

 

Brilliant post, thank you so much for sharing.

 

Some very informative posts and great food for thought.
Thank You.

 

Wondeful narrative and much appreciated . I haven't thought about owning a Porsche in a very long time. But after reading your response it sounds like you have the best of both worlds. I'm starting to think that my 599 GTO needs a room mate.

 

It does. But please not a silver one!

 

Food for thought

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCpCbZaD8xc]McLaren F1 and Ferrari F40 vs analogue rivals | evo TV - YouTube[/ame]

 

Great post. Thanks for sharing.

 

The only thing I really like more about the CGT then the GTO is the exhaust note. I think the CGT has the best car exhaust note out there. But as stated above, as far as ease, safety, and comfort are concerned the GTO wins. Plus and this may not matter to you but from a resale perspective the GTO is the better buy.

You really have to ask yourself do you want a super fast/awesome raw do it yourself car? Or do you want a super fast/awesome not raw do it for you car? I would have both if I could but if I couldn't, I would go with the GTO. I like to have my cake and eat it too.