Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

I like to drive not be driven .
I did not say a 991 turbo was more special than a 12 c , even that depends on your definition . However for thrills and significance there are dozens of 911s over the years that have achieved better or more . The 911 r , the st series , the 73 rs , the full blown prototype beating 73 rsr , 74 rsr , the turbo rsrs etc etc up to the gt1 , 993gt2 , the gt3 series , the 4.0 rs . The list is very long. Cars that won at Le Mans , Mille miglia , in rallying , in sprints , on ice and in club Motorsport . A heritage winning record and variety of skill sets the 12c cannot even dream about .
The rs was winning races in championships over 10 years after it came out . My 73 rsr first won in 73 at the 1000km of Mexico , it was competitive with regular wins until it's last win in 79 at the 250 miles of Daytona .

The mclaren is an awesome point to point weapon , it is not significant for any other reason ( carbon tubs , etc have all been done before ) . The cars I mention above were trend setters , some you took out of a showroom, drove to Le Mans and placed ! In some cases they are worth nearly a 100 times more now than what they were originally . 50 years later the special variants still sell out in hours . Even my 4.0 rs , a late model Porsche is much more an experience to drive than my "drive by wire " feeling 12c . We took my carrera gt , 12c and 4.0 to spa and by day 2 the mclaren was left alone in the corner of the pit all alone feeling sorry for itself . The Porsches were , challenging , fun , difficult , mechanical , predictable and a dozen other things I appreciate in a special experience . It says a lot about the mclaren that the best I remember of that car was its straight line speed , ease of use and comfort . An excellent car but not a siren that hypnotises you with it's haunting cry , not by a long shot .
For road cars with an actual Link to a race heritage relevant to the road , at the top of the tree there is Ferrari and Porsche , different cars and different price points but in many ways very similar .

 

I'm sure many wouldn't miss some blatant Mclaren propaganda on the boards if you took the wager either Erik. I would miss the ability to post on the forum, that's the point. Nothing to do with how I am viewed, but its very interesting how you interpreted it, and revealing.

Please feel free to gamble with your opportunity to be a paid up mouthpiece.

 

I suggest you actually take the time to read what I said rather than just comment on what you think I said .
I said the bug was faster / more stable or planted ( I forget the exact word ) in the big sweeping corners we used the cars on . Not it was better necessarily in all corners . In fact I specifically said the p1 would kill it on track .
I no where said it stopped better , I said it was more stable under braking and wether you like it or not ; it was .
I take the time to actually read your posts and reply to you in a considered manner , kindly do me the courtesy of replying in kind .
I'm not a shareholder in Bugatti or mclaren . I have no dog In this fight , I have no desire to buy either car , I never said this was a scientific test , I never said anything was timed but however way you cut it ; on the roads and on that day the SS was the faster , more stable , more usable car . Just the sheer traction of the damned thing was unbelievable , it's just that days experiences not a desire to hurt your feelings or a character assassination or mr Dennis . No matter how many times you argue the toss it's not going to change anything

 

I agree but don't exaggerate, we can do easier and prove time without coming with a helicopter and everything else. Others have done it before and in an easy way.

 

Let us all know when you head over with your P1 to set the record. It will be fun to watch.

 

About Porsche.

Lone Wolf, maybe you have raced for Porsche in Cup series, but I feel, maybe I am wrong, that you are not aware of Porsche history and their tech abilities. Must say (I don't want to make a holy war here, understanding that it is a ferrari forum, but anyway, lets put facts), that during its participation in motorsport Porsche brought much more innovations that Mclaren and possibly Ferrari alltogether.

As examples.
1. One of first in usage of Pneumatic lifts on pitstops - Porsche developed AU 1934
2. First usage of ground effect skirts (not Lotus or Chapparal as many think) AU Streamliner 1938.
3. One of first to use 4WD in racing - Cisitalia 360
4. One of the first to use beryllium, titanium and magnesium (Porsche 909 bergspyder)
5. One of the first in usage of adjustable turbocharger - Porsche 917/10 & 30
6. First usage of paddle shifters or buttons to change gears - Porsche 956 with PDK
7. First usage of mechanical KERS (collaborating with Williams)
8. Firstly to use innovative oil system to cool the engine - Turbo engine for Macca
And so on... lots of things to list, no wish to list everything...

The only company that is comparable with Porsche in Autosport - Ferrari.(maybe mercedes too till 1955) No one would argue that these 2 brands are the greatest in motorsport and these 2 had more wins than all the others altogether.

Mclaren? First carbon fiber monocoque that was developed by american aeronautical company, actually...))) I respect Macca, they built one of the greatest cars of all times - F1. But it is not enought to be comparable to Porsche or Ferrari. Hey, they even cant develop an engine.

 

Mate don't even go there , that list is endless .
For example the 356's cylindrical synchromesh became the world standard for all manual gearboxes and is still in use today!

 

No, I really think Wtdoom don't like Mclaren and he is simply not objective.
Although the 911 is a great car (and I like Porsche). But Mclaren plays to another level. And P1 doesn't play in the same category as the 918. Only the La ferrari can compete with the P1.

 

Yep, I believe we could write about 50-60 points of "saying so" significant innovations
We have also forgotten to mention first VTG on petrol engine in 911 turbo...)))

 

Dr Porsche s electric / hybrid car ?

The 1923 Benz Tropfenwagen was the first race car with mid-engine, rear-wheel-drive layout. The Benz Tropfenwagen was designed by Ferdinand Porsche along with Willy Walb and Hans Nibel.

The Porsche designed auto union gp cars of the 30s , described by competitors as decades ahead of their time .
Need we go on?

 

Wtdoom think Kanu really not like to read ,
Doom not say turbo good and 12c bad , big chief have heap um big inferiority complex lol

 

I will keep this short: i dont agree.

 

And that mr wolf is what makes a great forum

 

history is great. we have gone to a whole new level here.....why dont we start with who invented the AUTOMOBILE in the first place?

 

we are supposed to argue much more than this.....

 

100% agree with you. Great post.

 

Please mr wolf , we don't argue . We are motoring enthusiasts from all over the world exchanging ideas , opinions , likes , dislikes and even philosophies here on an open forum . At the end of the day we are all passionate about the same things .
Fwiw I love motor racing history and heritage , it's because of those innovations we are here today !

 

I believe we were talking about innovations in automobiles, not about who made an auto)))

 

i love racing, respect the history and heritage but always look forward. no sympathy for old cars, i'm afraid. old cars are depressing and i dont care what they've won or how they felt when they were new. I'll never forget what Schuey said after driving some historic old ferrari around the track, 'nice to look at but.......' i echo that sentiment.

old cars break, A LOT, old cars dont stop, old cars dont go, old cars should be GARAGED.

performance and driving are what matter to me, and in my experience newer has always been better. perhaps slightly different but always better.
although, i do think we are getting close to diminishing returns.....at least i did until i drove a 12c
a 911 has been a 911 since the 996model really. ferrari, much to their credit, have vastly improved since the 355 but then along comes McLaren and simply moves the goalposts, BRAVO

 

AU and Mercs of 30s were around 20-30 years ahead of it time. Streamliners, usage of aerotunnels for aerodynamics, materials, even to change gears on AU the pilot had not to use clutch pedal!!! And imagine good old supercharged v16)))

 

Leapfrogged? Hardly....

You know the Porsche 911 you are comparing is about 1/3rd the price correct? Even though I think the GT3's of today are far superior to a Mac on a track I'm lost as to why you think the Mac shouldn't be faster than it's competitor priced so much cheaper?

The Mac is an incredibly sterile and boring car to drive even though it's fast, I just can't believe you aren't trying to talk yourself into loving all thing Mac when you keep saying this.

Have you been burned by Ferrari or Porsche in some way?

Did you want a LaFerrari and they denied you? The 458 and Mp are so close in looks and drive I can't believe it. To say it's Leaps above a 458 cracks me up.

ding ding ding ding

Porsche is the benchmark for road racing there is no manufacturer close.




F1 racing is possibly the most boring money burning event in the world today. It's a snooze fest to watch. Why would Porsche care to join? What would they gain? Market share? LMAO.

 

The Porsche P1 is very cool.

First Porsche-Designed Car from 1898 on Display at Porsche Museum

 

The 458 and Mp are so close in looks and drive I can't believe it. To say it's Leaps above a 458 cracks me up.

the above is my point! its the first generation 12c while the 458 has been developed for-several generations

never burned by either brand; i would say often bored by porsche and often dissapointed by ferrari but overall happy with both but blown away by 12c. and impressed enough to plunk down for a p1......

 

John, this recent video might help to point out that, for now, it's a seat of the pants thing that a lot of qualified drivers can feel. For all the lack of emotion and driver involvement that McLaren have been criticised for up to now, the comments starting just before 6 minutes in seem to tell another story.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SGlN8xYZiw]McLaren P1 - exclusive on-track review of the world's ultimate hypercar - YouTube[/ame]

 

It's not sympathy I have it's enjoyment . A pure mechanical experience , where my inputs define the cars reactions not a computer .
If you are ever at spa I'll bring an old st or an rsr an well do some laps , we will be a hell of a lot slower in them than in your 12c but we will have a bigger grin by far .

It's just wonderful !