Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

no worries xku, I think its a good thing Ferrari has some new competition, forces them to make better cars for all of us. for many years they had no real challengers. perhaps in a few years things will be different. they do make amazing products and we all want more of that.

edit: I do admit Ferrari's e-diff and telemetry system is innovative, kudos to Ferrari for pushing that envelope

 

first of all, 911 GT3 RS will handily hold its own (and then some) against 12c or 458 incl Speciale. against latest 12c, the specs say RS is down 120hp, and hundreds of pounds less on downforce. yet, on racetracks no 12c or 458 will walk it. you'll see.

What, specifically, makes the P1 a league above 918? once again, I think all 3 hypercars are super wicked, but saying 918 doesn't compete at its level is a hit and run statement. why don't you stick around a bit, lets break it down.

build quality/fit finish (918 is a step up as seen/felt by the very few who has had time in both)

you want to compare carbon fiber structures (918 has both main and sub-frame's in the latest carbon tech. Ferrari gets the nod by slim margin over 918 with its use of expensive top tier carbon fabrics allowing its structure a weight advantage...in the end, what matters here is that all 3 cars are waaaaaay more than adequate)

how about the Battery and E-motor system (918 implementation is by far the most ambitious, but is also the most accomplished...in 'tech' terms it is appreciably more 'high tech' than its 2 competitors.

brakes, suspension, all 3 are comparable

ICE (918 is all new from ground up, much more motorsport derived (for lots of folks, it matters very much), incredibly light weight/razor sharp response/high revving/high output wicked sounding lump. P1 engine is a bit 'from the auto parts catalogue' compared to the other 2, yes it puts out massive power, but the fashion in which that power is produced is rather less special as perceived by most. Ferrari V-12 is a 'in house, derived lump', but it has most everything desired. sound, massive output, high revving/instant response. could be lighter as 918's V8 puts perspective on things--awesome 285lbs. as total system power is concerned, they will all be in the 900hp club. in final delivery spec, 918 will have 900+hp and be the only one in the 900/900 club. So...918: 900+hp, 940ft-lbs/LaFerrari: 950hp, 750ft-lbs/P1: 903hp, 800ft-lbs)

what makes the car, what is its 'x-factor', what is it really all about.

918: showcase of serious next gen technology here today, combined with serious hypercar performance--speed, agility, and not the least... wonderful accessibility to that performance . as a performance machine it is exciting, great stability, very agile, extremely fast both from standing start, and around race tracks. 0-60 in 2.5 as claimed by Porsche, which means 2.4 sec is about right (comfortably quicker than P1 and LaF , both at 2.8sec est) because they are always conservative with claims. LaF should be demonstrably quickest of the 3 from 60mph on upwards.

P1: exciting hypercar looks, hypercar performance. though envelope accessibility not nearly on same level as 918. effortless speed, tremendous race track prowess (so long as there are no curbs or rumble strips a wicked machine with its own set of quirks.

Laferrari: two words... "Ferrari Hypercar". the details don't really matter. I desperately want one, average joe wants one, heck, the whole world wants one.

So what specifically makes P1 on another level, compared to 918?

 

Mac leapfrogging Ferrari and Porsche is only rational in a fanboy universe.

 

we are in agreement regarding the whole 'leapfrogging, groundbreaking' subject. however, I require something more than the simple statements when someone makes such a claim as "this is the best modern car". I need specifics on 'what, why, how' and not just their enthusiasm, not 'facts' based on their seat-of-the-pants impressions

 

IMO the 918 may not be faster than the other 2 but definitely is a better value and more importantly it's available to anyone that wants it - plus it's the only spyder - only one that can run electric only as well as awd benefits.

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one thing i see in common that is not discussed is altitude. not everyone lives at the same elevation. some live in Colorado, some in Florida, some in Italy, etc. I live at 5,000 and often drive to 7,000 ft.

Due to elevation a turbocharged car is going to outperform a non-turbo car. The thought that a GT3RS with a NA 6-cyl is going to hold its own against a twin turbo 8 is simply not going to happen. I drive a 991 TTS and its still down on the 12C.

That is what is so cool about these 3 supercars; the electric motor fills in the missing torque. But electric only goes so far; you still need something to go the extra distance. That's where the big turbo's come into play, or the extra cylinders ...

scuderia, watch some drag racing videos, take a test drive, I dunno. Unless you put the miles in yourself its hard to say what you like. Personally I think the 12c ride is more comfortable when I want it to be, quieter when I want it to be, the interior is more user-friendly, and yet when I want to rip it up, the car is going 10-20MPH faster with less pushing then I ever did in the 458 on my most familiar roads. I realize this gets into a zone some ppl are not comfortable with. I agree some cars, esp older ones, give a better feel but going slower. Different strokes for different folks.

 

Porsche has been 'open book' from the start. They've had 20+ mules out in the real world for some time now. They have given full disclosure on lap times, specs of the cars through continual development. remember, with its first real attempt, they only managed a 7:14 lap with one of the prototypes. I think a lot of people used that 'openness' for furthering their negativity regarding the 918. 'it's too heavy (Porsche was open with weight figures, early proto's were just under 3800lbs, so 'haters' used that with the 'low' system power ouput figure of 750-775hp to come to their 'facts' namely that the 918 will be a lot slower than P1 or LaF. then Weissach car gave us the 3650lbs spec. and those same haters still went on and on. at current 887hp and 3650lb curb wgt, we've seen just how 'slow' the car is. 0-60 in 2.5, and 6:57 NS lap.

people would just go ape with happiness if Mac would let the world in on the details within the many months long NB endeavor. and you're right, it would be so much better if they had been open from the get go, not after the fact. not after having to return, taking multiple tries. like you, I'd love to know the details from the FIRST attempt more so than the other tries. would love to see how far off that first best attempt (when the mood was 'we're super confident we'll demolish the competitors' time) compared to the eventual 'of course we did'.

 

when I was deciding between the 918 and P1, the one thing that seriously kept me coming back to the 918 was the drop top, and the luggage space. Porsche really did an amazing job.

P1 runs in electric only but that doesn't matter to me, its just kinda a side benefit I might use once in awhile. awd was not a selling feature imo, but I still appreciate what they have done.

 

see, here you are actually describing what you are talking about, explaining your claims/opinions...and that's what I'm talking about, just explain what/why you love a particular car. you're right, a GT3 RS engine can't compete at high elevations, its in the race track realm that the car excels. insanely fast on the track even while up against cars that out muscle it with 100+ hp. I can totally understand what makes your 12c more compelling...it's ability to be comfortable in real world roads, you get that when you're in the mood, and get a speed demon when you want to step it up . clearly, you love the car because of that ability, and the car 'talks' to you in a certain way. it's superior ride/handling over just about every car that it competes with, that's a unique ability of the car. I've seen lots of drag racing clips, and a friend of mine has driven a few for some decent seat time, yes, the car is faaast. he has a couple of GTR's one slightly modded (570 wheel hp)and one heavily breathed on (800 wheel hp), so at least I have an idea of how fast the 12c is/might be using the GTR as a reference and his thoughts between the two. off the line the GTR easily has the edge because of the 4wd. one car I'd really like to experience is the 12c spider. if you are ever in the Boulder area, please please let me do a shoot of your P1 when it arrives.

 

Yes nothing beats the feeling of an open top Hypercar- Congrats

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yep, that luggage space issue was one thing they couldn't get around with it being a removable targa system.

 

don't know about a lot at this point, but we do know that at the claimed 2.5 sec 0-60, the 918 is comfortably quicker there. Porsche historically is conservative with those numbers so the idea of 0-60 in sub 2.5sec is incredible.

 

have any you guys ridden passenger in a <3.0 car. I find that under 3 its pretty much puking time. I can drive ok but not ride. there's a big difference between say 3.1 and 2.8, let alone 2.5. That's getting into very uncomfortable zone. If you get a chance to ride in a 918 watch what you eat for breakfast

 

From the few recent posts, it's clear Kanu is 'understanding-challenged' and the posts fall deeply in the hole of "ludicrous".

 

I'm ok as a passenger in my friends 570whp car, clocked in the mid 2.8's several times in that. I do get queasy in his 800whp monster. I don't think very many appreciate how uncomfortable things can be when they're not behind the wheel.

 

Historically, GT3's have been track masters... outperforming competitors with much higher hp and price tags. the new 991 GT3 RS should be another monster even at an 'anemic' 510hp. it's chassis/suspension is exceptional. Those hp figures are a bit misleading when comparing 911's to others, especially the RS models. their wheel hp figures always comes up trumps when compared to the competitors. they simply put more power to the road. and that, along with brilliant chassis set up, goes a long ways towards the lap times.

 

Mr Wolf confuses his subjective impressions with facts. Makes 'loud' statements that are not supported in any way, either with objectivity or facts. He also does a huge disservice to himself by perpetually bathing in ignorance (topics like motorsports, comparo tests, cars in general). says "no way on this planet that 991 GT3 is faster than a 12c, as GT3 is little faster than M3". common sense to MANY car guys, says GT3 is vastly superior on track, and it's way faster than M3. And tests have shown that 991 GT3 indeed laps faster than 12c. it's surprising that such a fan of performance cars continues to ride 'in the dark'. some statements get me thinking: "he clearly must be joking" only he isn't. that's how ludicrous some of them are. example: his 12c makes all his previous Ferrari's 'obsolete'. errr ok, if one car can make every Ferrari he's owned so limp, I'd like to know what/why/how. nope. I have no idea if it's all related, but bad mouthing the Ferrari's he's owned and praising 12c as end all be all of what constitutes a modern performance car, a "game changer", and his whole LaFerrari buying debacle. something along lines of tried to, but couldn't get one, then said he didn't try to and could care less and never wanted a LaFerrari. anyhoo, it's a bit complicated.

 

thanks for the update on the gt3/rs, but i've owned, i think, 6-7 of them both race and street versions, so many i lost count. i am very well aware of their charms. raced the 'real' gt3 with the 'de facto', at the time, factory porsche team too, with their best drivers(man those guys are good) but i'm also well aware that the 12c is in a COMPLETELY different league as a street car.
gt3 so slow on the street i cant even be bothered with it. at least a turbo or gt2 has some torque and power.

 

i have elaborated on what/why/how the 12c sucks the lights out of every f-car i've ever owned in quite good detail. the only argument i ever get back is, it lacks passion and feel. i dont even know what that means???

 

Nothing important.

Enjoy your Meccalaren!

 

"So what specifically makes P1 on another level, compared to 918?" One of the metrics you failed to list in your comparison is WEIGHT.

With all other things being close to equal, weight is undeniably a detriment to 918. I have heard the arguments about their four wheel steering and agree that it helps but it has to overcome the added centrifugal forces of the "maybe" 500 lbs. difference between these two vehicles. That means that if 918 is in a 1G corner she has an additional force of 500 lbs. to overcome. These cars are capable of approaching 2G's of cornering force and that is 1000 lbs. And then there is the physics relating to its ability to accelerate with the extra cargo. This just isn't a fair fight.

Another metric not mention in your P1 vs 918 comparison is downforce. P1 is said to generate 600 kilo's. Has there been any release by Porsche as to 918 downforce fiqures? This may be another area where P1 has an advantage.

 

All that downforce the P1 can't actually legally deploy on roads in the U.S, and europe?

Not much of a benefit in reality.

 

But it sure could be used at the "race track" which I would assume is the design intent. Where would you need that downforce on legal street & roads anyways?

 

All hat...no cattle.

 

Agree. And if you take care of everything, winning will take care of itself.

Don't get me wrong . . . it is nice to win. But we agree on the "journey."