Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Keep asking the question of supercar owners that live with these machines. You will get the point eventually.

 

None of these are like an F40 nor do those buying one want them to be. If they want an F40 they buy an F40 or already have one. Modern Supercars are great in that they can be driven every day in the rain/sleet and snow. The AC works. They don't overheat. You don't nave to drive with one eye on the temp gauge and one eye on the oil Pressure gauge. You don't smell like exhaust when you get out of one. You can drive one 800 miles in one day without needing two days of rest afterwards. At night you can see. Your wife will enjoy the drive a lot more. She may even fall asleep as you cruise through the night. You will not have rain come in through the doors. You will have a bit of space to store your gear. If you want you can listen to Opera as you drive through the mountains of Sicily. If you want you can tool through Monaco, Manhattan Paris without incident or your clutch leg muscles exploding.

 

+100%

 

You were with us it seems on our last two 1000 mile rallies in my 356

 

Brilliant post

 

That is pretty much my point. The question I pose is how is refinement in these new generation of cars a bad thing? They are a huge bonus to add to their ridiculous performance.

If they are usable, if they have storage, if you can drive them in cities without ripping sections of the nose off along with extreme performance when the owner requires it, how is that somehow negative?

The F40 is what it is, I doubt many are driven on a regular basis and I'm sure owners that do have slight personal irritations when they attempt to. I'm of the opinion this new generation have tried to address those irritations. Some better than others.

 

Sal told me a funny story about you & Dino Competizione when I visited, regarding a beautiful day ruined by some rain...

 

That was a crazy day. I set off in sun and suddenly it turned into a monsoon. The air inlets took in so much water the engine stalled. Happily when it did I was somewhat near the shop. A 1/4 mile push back in a downpour. All part of Vintage cars. It took Sal a week to dry it completely out.

 

If you say, we can not enjoy of downforce of road legal because it's race mode, ok but if I don't make mistake, roads are limited. So apart on the track where you want to enjoy. So whatever the advantages and inconveniences of each car, it's only on track we can see and enjoy. These cars are made to take advantages of their capacities on the track and not on the road. Then for some of you, stop saying "yes but on road legal, it can't do this or that".

 

I'm personally looking forward to seeing the 375 P1's turn up to tracks with their owners seeking to take advantage of their full capacities.

Unfortunately I doubt I will get to see many, hence my point. Mclaren developing a self park ability in the P1 would of been more useful. I sincerely hope for the engineers that spent untold hours finding that downforce that I am wrong and the majority will be tracked.

 

Please stop with your 7:04. It's not more official than 6:3 ... but if it makes you happy and you feel better, continue.

 

yes you are right but whatever your abilities, you always enjoy more than on the road. And interest is to meet other passionate people like us.

 

We obviously won't know the "actual" weight differential until we put both cars on scales. But the vehicle that wins the weight battle will have its advantages unless one defies the laws of physics.

Your post is excellent in pointing out the technical virtues of 918's platform. I also agree that 918 is a technical tour D force. And you also state 918's expected stellar performance metric 0-60 in 2.4-2.5 sec. This metric is the result of Porsche's AWD Hybrid power train producing an enormous >900 ft/lb of torque. Put what happens after that? If the numbers are to be believed, as these cars race to 0-186, 918 get's there in 19.9 sec whereas P1 arrives there in 16.5 sec. That is 3.4 seconds - considered a mile off in drag racing terms. How do you explain that? and would you consider that a noteworthy differential?

We won't know anything about where and how these cars produce the results they achieve until we see the telemetry. We will soon see these results once they make there way into the hands of their performance customers logging VBox results. It shouldn't be long before we know a lot more about these cars, ALL of which are INCREDIBLE machines.

 

Thats very simple to explain , The 918 front engine disconnects over 165mph , the acceleration isnt as great then .
P1 will be faster noticeably at the very top end , on drag strips etc .

 

918 is a very strange and complicated car
so it decreases power just as you need more at 165mph? it should add power at that point? why is that? that cant feel great
how much hp does it lose?

 

It looses it's front motor which produces 125 HP.

 

and why?

 

I'm sure Doom has more detailed data, since he is a potential owner, put I belief it has to do with the geared rotational speeds of the motor and their ability to integrate this system. I believe I heard that the reason why their performance numbers (0-60, 0-124, 0-186) are better than first advertised where due to Porsche's ability to keep the front motor coupled at higher speeds. One of Porsche's early releases had the 0-186 metric at 23 sec. Now 19.9 sec. You have to hand it to those Germans.

 

Need it more? The only time these cars will see more than 165mph is on an autoban.

On a race track they will exceed this speed rarely, so I don't agree with the need it more view. Exploding out of corners is where you need all the grip and power you can muster.

We've already done the maths, maintaining a higher acceleration above 165mph will make bugger all difference to a lap time, even if the average speed was over 100mph.
Pete

 

Reads like driving my Mazda 6.

I'm not saying I want to be uncomfortable, but there has to be a sense of occasion when driving these cars, not just more speed.

While I do not own a F40, and will very likely never do, I would want one because as you approach it for a drive you will have to remember to talk to yourself and question whether you are up to it. Now that is an occasion. Heck even Alesi or Prost crashed one!!!
Pete

 

Some improvements are necessary. Others are nice. The rest compromise involvement. It's a nice feeling to understand a machine, and compensate for or accentuate its peculiarities to extract the performance you want.

Not everyone shares this view, obviously. Such people don't drive the vintage motorcycles that require shifting by handing or fiddling with the choke. They don't appreciate the clearing out of the carbs and the explosive rise in power. But others do. All kinds of motoring enthusiasts out there.

I like knowing what "just so" is for my car's steering, braking, acceleration, and clutch engagement points. I like being able to throw it out of whack, knowing how far it will squirm or slide before coming back to linear responsiveness again. It makes me feel very connected to the machine. I like the fact that it takes lots of practice to get it right.

Others want to get it right the first time and prefer that the various computers and control systems modulate their input and make it "just so" all the time. For them, the modern supercars that automatically blip their throttles and match revs are a better fit.

 

The 918 has been optimised for real use speeds the front engine is optimised in this way too with a single gear . It's main purpose is ( the front engine) huge , immediate torque , vectored for thrust out of corners not top end speed . A second gear would have interfered with this and changed the front to rear weight distribution and compromised boot space ( once you consider cooling etc ). The front engine theory is based on the system used on the 911 hybrid cup cars .i believe the logic is rarely will one use over 165 in a spirited drive or on a track . On the autobahn the car is plenty fast enough unless of course you will be regularly conducting this mythical race with a la Ferrari and veyron daily , in which case I'd simply wait for the next corner anyway ...

Unfortunately I think a pure drivers car as you describe above is impossible with over 900 hp .
In fact I fear the pure drivers car is actually dead , the Nissan gtr has almost killed it with the escalation of ring/track times and other manufactures need to show " improvement" . The manual Supercar is already almost certainly dead unfortunately .

I bet that a Carrera gt is a lot more fun than a 918 , an f1 is more enjoyable than a p1 and an f50 beats a la Ferrari all day long for driver involvement .

It's a pity in many ways as I believe that there is space for both types of car in the car industry .

 

Not dead, just relagated to kit car and replica makers. Stratos, T70, GT40, Shelby daytona coupe, Caterhams(lotus 7)... all exist today as quaity made replicas.