458's successor engine speculation

I don't have a problem with the engine note, but the new engines are very quiet. That's a real shame. People trackside have said that the new F1 cars are quieter than the current GP2 cars!

It should be noted that nobody has stated they are running full power at Jerez. Mercedes GP have said that they are not running above 13,000 rpm.

But this year's F1 season will be a farce. All about saving fuel and not going flat out. Reliability will win the WDC. That's what I want to see in GT endurance racing, not F1.

 

No F1 race is about going flat out from the start to the finish, it is about going as slowly as possible to still win.

Where this illusion that F1 racing is qualifying laps every lap came from I have no idea. You have to look after your tyres, keep it on the track, monitor fuel usage to ensure even in the fuel stop days that you don't need extra stops and so on.

Even 5 lap club racing is not flat out every lap ... closer yes but ...
Pete

 

Totally agree....the sound of the NA cars to me were part of the whole F1 experience....those 14 cars sound terrible...I reckon a standard 458 sounds better!!!

 

All I know is the last time this agenda affected cars, we got underpowered junk. This time it seems like we will still get a lot of power. I think we're lucky on that. However, I also think I prefer the NA motor over turbo for a fun car. But let's wait and see what really happens and what Ferrari does. For a while people said they wouldn't buy a Ferrari if it wasn't stick shift. Look what happened.

 

We have to remember F1 is not classic car racing so we need to move forward. Turbo engines are better than non turbo engines, that is a fact. We now can make a very reliable turbo charged engine so the peek of motorsport should use a turbo charged engine. It's not NASCAR or Aussie V8 Supercars after all.
Pete

 

I have been certain for a long time that the 458 successor will be a TT car. So that someone from a dealer claims the same after being in Maranello doesn't surprise me at all.

Choose to live in the past and still foolishly hope for a NA (nothing wrong with that, the past was better than today), or wake up and take a look at reality. If you do the latter it's not that hard to comprehend that a turbo engine is imminent.

That's both true and untrue. It seems many European (and eastwards) dealers tend to get a lot more inside info than the US dealers. My dealer knows a lot of stuff from Maranello, basically gets sent all the specs for cars very early etc. The chief of sales of my second closest dealer is part of a group that gather in Maranello and then debate what future cars Ferrari should build, based on customer input. He pretty much knows everything they know at the factory. Judging by the location from the guy who posted it, the info from his dealer may very well be solid.

 

Couldn't disagree more but would you care to elaborate on that so called fact?

By the way, the new F1 engines do sound terrible compared to their predecessors. In fact their sound is very close to that of the F3 cars!!!

 

Manufacturers said that 13k RPM is what they will be using in races too. 15k RPM is the legal limit, but they won't be spinning that fast.

 

Its hard to make a statement that one is better than the other without qualifying for which purpose one is better.

TC: better for fuel efficiency, especially at lower RPMs and better for lower RPM torque. Also better for higher altitude driving.

NA: Better for throttle response, sound, possibly ultra high RPM fuel economy (not sure on this one).

We each have our preferences.

Ferrari has some world class engineers working for them so lets see what they can do and wait to experience it for ourselves before we judge.

 

Agreed, Craig Scarborough says the peak power is at 10,000 - 11,000 rpms. With fuel load being restricted to 100 liters and the fuel flow limited to 100 liters per hour, they would also run out of fuel before the end of the race.

 

It is so trying when you have definitive information that you cannot reveal the source of and people chose not to believe it. It will be a turbo. Not only does that come from the top, but the logic is overwhelming. You really think the Cali will be the only eight cylinder turbo in the range?

 

We've been saying this for about 2 months in the 458 section.

Bring it on... the F40 and 288 GTO show you can make great turbo cars.

 

I have a feeling that the V8 turbo will be an interim solution until a small displacement V12 with hybrid boost is introduced in the subsequent generation of the production Ferrari. It is for this reason, I'm not very interested in the 458 replacement at all. My next F car will probably be a V12 GT car.

 

I think that an engine like the F40's would not be acceptable nowadays. I am not talking about emissions, rather the drivability of the thing. Huge turbo lag, followed by a burst of power would displease a lot of customers. The new turbo engines will be as seemless as possible IMHO. I am looking forward to the new California, as that one will show to the world whether Ferrari pulled it through or not. Making a turbocharged engine behave like a normally aspirated one is a very tall order.

 

I think that many people will go into V12 but how do you know that V12 will have hybrid system? Ferrari enginers say that it's too expensive for unlimited Ferrari models.

 

I'm quite sure we won't see a small V12. Too much internal friction with that many moving parts...

 

IMO very unlikely to see a V12 hybrid in a 458 replacement that would be a very expensive solution

 

small displacement V8 bi turbos are becoming common,see BMW,AUDI and others,mabe due to regulations? for fuel economy

 

and all of them sounds like crap, this type od sound is good for M5 but not for Ferrari

 

Im sure I'm not alone in thinking: I'm holding on to my 458 a bit longer.

I would be really surprised to see them deploy a smaller V12 in their V8 category car.

 

Not a fan of turbo lag but will reserve judgement until after test drive.

 

I would like to see in future Ferrari cars "small V12" like in F50

 

Exactly right. The F40 is not for the unskilled or faint of heart. It came out at the time that 930 Turbos were extant, which were pretty scarey.

We will see what they come up with. I am skeptical. My attitude is that one of the main reasons I have paid nearly 300K rather than 100-200K is to get a powerful, high revving, great sounding, ultra responsive engine. If I just wanted torque I would have spent a lot less on a one of a variety of fast TT cars.

 

It is a fact:
More power for same cc size,
Considerably more torque for same cc size,
For same power/torque considerably more fuel efficient,
No difference in reliability,
Nowadays turbo lag is not an issue, and definitely will not be an issue with the F1 engines as they are spooling up the turbo with an electric motor.

The only negative is potentially sound, but one could say the best sounding engine was the BRM v16 failure, and yet we let them change. Or we could say the v12 F1 Maserati engine of around '67, and then why did we let Ferrari go to v10 when their v12's sounded better.

So it is a fact, modern turbo engines are better than modern NA engines of same size or power/torque, because if same size the turbo will have considerably more power/torque and if same power/torque the turbo will be considerably more fuel efficient.

The 458 replacement, if a turbo engine, will surely have no lag thanks to turbo spooling via an electric motor and I think will reset the basis we judge all road engines. It will be the first very modern turbo engine (although BMW might debate this) and surely will be awesome. I just hope they make it small, like around 2 litres so it really is impressive.
Pete

 

Don't worry too much about sound. In our lifetime, today's exhaust "noise" will be as welcome as the sound of a steam locomotive.

...and when that time comes, I will be the crazy old guy with straight pipes on my F12!