458's successor engine speculation | Page 10 | FerrariChat

458's successor engine speculation

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by TomTom77, Jan 10, 2014.

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  1. montpellier

    montpellier Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2009
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    Whilst it won't bother people watching on tv, the new new "power systems" sound rubbish. Your 458 Speciale is on another planet. No one is going to be recording these babies. A Supercup car sounds far better. The V10's were off the scale (for everything), the v8's made your hairs stand up on your neck. The new unit.. it does nothing for the emotions, but will save your hearing.

    Anyway, the new 458 will certainly have a V8 turbo, emissions and power needs . Most manufactures , when releasing a new model, allow for unto 100 bhp in life development. So the Huracan will start with 600bhp and via the various versions end up near 700 bhp. The Aventador and F12 replacements will be getting up near 850 to 900 bhp... With wings and a parachute.
     
  2. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    I went from 400 hp gt3 motor to 550 hp gtr and the porsche motor was still my favorite for 2 reasons. Most important is the sound. One is a valkyre, other a vacuum cleaner. Secondly, the gtr does have turbo lag in certain situations. Floor it on street at 40 mph and you would think its an altima until gets spooled up. Do same with gt3 and you think its le mans.

    ferrari will have to pull a rabbit out of hat to equal 458 engine with a turbo
     
  3. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

    Nov 7, 2011
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    Indeed a big rabbit. We will see.

    BTW you are absolutely right about the GT3. The only 911 that makes the blood run strong.
     
  4. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    8,435
    Bournemouth, UK


    Keep in mind that the 458 has entered the 5th year of its life, whereas the 991 is brand new. The equally new Speciale would leave the Porsche for dead.
     
  5. Woppum

    Woppum Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
    677
    Turbos are very fast. But suck the life out the car too. Macca sounds like a frog drowning in olive oil
     
  6. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    Where is the 991tt vs 458 comparo? I only see old test w 997
     
  7. bigblock737

    bigblock737 Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2013
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    I seriously doubt there will be one... I'm awaiting a 991 GT3 vs 458 Speciale test, as the all wheel steering of the P obviously worked better on the Turbo. At least the Turbo was much quicker on Hockenheim-track than the GT3....
     
  8. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    In 3-5 years, wouldn't the competitor for the 458 successor be the 960?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Yes your right plus Porsche's stated goal is to beat the Ferrari in most parameters
    The 960 will have a turbo flat 8 and will be priced 300k euro which is above the 458
     
  10. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #235 arizonaitalian, Feb 9, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
    Priced above the Ferrari, macca and gallardo?

    [Wow...300k euro is $400k usd...a typical 458 coupe stickers for $275k +/- and it's base price is around $230k iirc. Same for macca and gallardo +/- iirc.]

    Interesting choice if Porsche goes with that pricing. I have no inside information, but I was thinking the 960 base price would be in the $200-$230k usd range. Pricing higher than the established segment leaders is a doomed marketing strategy...

    For example, While macca sales have been decent, what has happened to their used prices will have a large impact on buyers staying with the brand imho...the market is speaking and despite besting the 458 in most measured performance tests, the car simply is proving to not be worth the ferraris price. I highly doubt many macca buyers will stick with the brand if they see $100k loses on their mp4 in a short period of time.
     
  11. mik458spider

    mik458spider Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2013
    1,386
    I buy Ferrari because it is beautiful and sounds good (loud and screaming), not because it can track very fast. If lap time is all I care about, I would have bought the Nissan GTR.
    Now if the 458 successor is using a turbo charged engine, some more sharing engine with Maserati becomes MASERRARI, I will either go for V12 or Lambo which is still using NA. Turbo charged sounds like vacuum cleaner, and feels like a no-brainer. Because it requires a high tech to build an NA with high power, but any local store can add a turbo to make you car yielding 1,000+ hp.
     
  12. bigblock737

    bigblock737 Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2013
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    Maybe the GTR is faster, but just for 2 or 3 laps... Thereafter it's done...
    Plus you lose the warranty if you track the car...
     
  13. C.K.C

    C.K.C Karting

    Jul 3, 2013
    58
    Still hope to keep the NA
     
  14. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

    Nov 7, 2011
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    +1. One of the reasons I pay as much as I have for F-cars is to be able to experience the instantaneous and linear response of their engines, as well as the sounds and beauty. If I just wanted torque, I can pay a lot less for any of a large number of excellent cars. If that experience is no longer available I will need to rethink things, but in the meantime we do have our 458s.
     
  15. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3

    Apr 8, 2012
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    Don't forget, the current 458 engine is already a MASERRARI. Obviously there you also haven't had a problem.
     
  16. bigblock737

    bigblock737 Formula Junior

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    Are you sure it will have a Turbo? No need to develop a new engine then - they could use the flat-6. Would only make sense if it were NA IMO...
     
  17. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Their goal is to eclipse the 458 in performance hence the Flat 8 turbo
    Obviously this speculation and a summation of various web rumors
     
  18. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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  19. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian Two Time F1 World Champ
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    They have a kick ass flat plane NA v8 in the 918 and a hopped up turbo flat 6 in the GT2 that makes that car as fast or faster than a 458. Not to mention a turbo cross plane v8 in the cayanne and a v10 at stablemate Audi...

    Introducing a whole new engine...spendy!
     
  20. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    But it also differentiates their product from the Audi and Lambo which will be based on the same platform
     
  21. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Good point...are you thinking the 960 will be the same platform as the R8 successor and the huracan? Or a new platform? I'm really anxious to see this car on the market...
     
  22. NorthernExposed

    Jan 28, 2014
    11
    I think Ferrari knows part of their appeal with consumers is the symphony of engine noise. Given that, if I had to place a bet right now I expect N/A V8 with KERS over Twin Turbo. I originally had thought perhaps they were going to have to go turbo to keep up but if you factor that the 458 replacement is still several years down the road therefore I believe that the current KERS education they are undertaking with LaFerrari will be refined enough to be in the 458 replacement. All they really need to nail down is reliability and the ability to mass produce KERS for the new car. Assuming they can do that I think they will always prefer that to going the turbo route. They can maintain the beautiful engine note and meet a higher output goal. I have been reading about battery technology as it applies to automotive applications and the next 5 years is going to bring some truly revolutionary things. Most notably output punch and extended longevity. Like it or not, with tightening emissions standards it appears to be the future. I for one take no issue with it provided that wonderful combustion note remains in the majority degree.
     
  23. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    I think you are partially correct. I think the batteries add a lot of expense. Thus, I expect to see a turbo V8 in the 458 successor- whether we like it or not. I think we will see KERS on the eventual F12 successor without turbos. It seems Ferrari will keep the V12s NA for the foreseeable future.
     
  24. MisterMaranello

    MisterMaranello F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2011
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    #249 MisterMaranello, Feb 27, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
    As stated multiple times earlier in this thread KERS is too expensive at the moment to develope and utilise in a regular production vehicle. Introducing KERS to the 458 successor will be expensive and result in a massive loss of profit per car sold, without much agility (if any) being gained both in terms of pure performance figures and emissions compared to an effective TT unit. The 458 successor WILL be TT, according to inside sources. Very logical and reasonable when you look at it outside the shoes of the "oh turbos are slow and horrible" hate club.

    Cali T sounds good, you could hear it on the promo video in the Modena presentations. Ferrari have no issues making a good sound from a turbo engine.
     
  25. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia F1 Rookie
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    With Ferrari's tick tick program releases of revolutionary/evolutionary models every 5 years the 458 successor likely is a tock so KERS seems unlikely. And with the V8 near it's max NA config already (a small bump in speciale), the only logical step is to twin turbo.
     

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