Just sold my Ferrari to buy more TSLA

Also, this track talk about the Model S is particularly funny because Tesla does make a car you can track-- the Roadster. Well, they used to make it, anyway. Lots of those have been on tracks-- Portland International Raceway even has a roadster charger permanently installed!

 

Panasonic has a large plant (5,000 employees) operating in China to produce Li-ion cells. Production of the lithium raw material itself is the part that is labor and resource-intensive. South America has several good sources, as is places in China. The US used to be the primary source worldwide in the first half of the 20th century.

Tesla does appear to have some clever patents regarding the cells, relying on the car's charging system to keep them from blowing up considering what they have eliminated within the cells. Whether that allows them to reduce the cost by 2/3, I have my doubts. That puts it almost in line with lead-acid AGM, and if they really could produce the cells that cheaply they could easily own much more than just vehicles. Telecom or UPS is billions of dollars worldwide per year. Lithium also doesn't have a scrap value like lead does, so in less policed places in the world it actually has the advantage of people not trying to destroy a radio base station to steal the batteries and sell the lead for scrap.

As for Tesla executives and their promises, I don't want to get into a Tesla: good or bad argument. All I will say is hints of the future are more for encouraging investors now rather than selling cars. No one buy an S today in the expectation of being able to drive 500 miles in three years. We shall see if the 8% pace is maintained, but in my experience the breakthroughs result in step-change then a tapering off as the "easy" performance improvements are already made. More capital is expended trying to get smaller marginal improvements. Until the next breakthough...which Tesla may or may not own the patent on in the future.

With all that I hope Tesla does make it, perform as they have promised, and your investment pays off.

 

There is track talk because the Op sold his ferrari because he prefered his tesla, and also wondered aloud when Ferrari would make an electric.

Why does this lead to track talk. Well because some of us actualy use the performance of our ferraris for something other than personal expressions of sucess. That usualy means the car is driven all out on the road, or on track or both. It ties into why ferrari is desireable, because it can charge hard on track and off for sustained periods, offers a litheness and feedback few other cars have.

So yes if you never really use the performance of your ferrari, or if you get butt clenched fooring it for a furtive run to 100 or 120 and think that is fast, if you think launch control is performance, then the performnce offered by and electric drivetrain is probably more than you need.

And yes for a sedan 0-60 under 5 secs is obscene and totaly unescessary, and yes on the road for a sedan a tesla has more go than is reasonable, making it fun in traficky enviroemnts, but there is in theory a whole lot more to the performance of a ferrari, sadly few can or do use it or appreciate it.

As to electric drivetrain in a ferrari. From what I understand electrics are brilliant from a standstill and the rate of go drops off with speed, tapering significantly above 85. This is due to the nature of electric motors and no transmsiion. Given the enrgy storage of a battery sustained hi performance use is unrealistic. Lastly the weight works against any battery car being a true performance car for more than a few laps. This is due to brakes getting cooked and tires melting trying to contain all the mass.

So to the Op and others I would say a Tesla is brillaint, and if you dont do more than 200 miles in a day, which most of us dont, then its all the car you need and more for driving to wrk and around town.

But if you are into sportscars and performance then electric drivetrains cannot objectively perform, subjectively they also lack the aural and mechanical drama. Personaly if I am going to live in an era of robotised transmisions and nany cars to make zeros heros then I am good with electric propulsion for my sportscar too so the subjective is ok.

Maybe tesla will make an out the box electric sportscar, but realisticaly even if power density of batteries doubles it wont be as good as an IC car, because top end thrust will lack, even if that is surmounted, it will still be too heavy and it will dpelete too soon. In fact for an electric performnce car to be really appealing it would need to weight 3000lbs or less, acclerate to 180 like abat out of hell and have a normal range of 500miles meaning about 150-200 on track. I think that type of spec/tech is really far off and probably more related to a hydrogen fuel cell.

Lastly while I love the whole tesla thing, batteries are enviormentaly unsound and you need to generate the power somewhere. Personaly I would rather have smog than nuclear. If we are going to burn natural gas for electricity why not just burn the natural gas in an IC car engine. So the real benefit, objectively speaking of electrics is no emissions at source, and if we can find an non dangerous emision free way of making electricity, with easy to recycle and build batteries electrics are a win. Otherwise its just a cool new propulsion sytem that has some benefits and some drawbacks, mostly a creature of legislation. Now I dont discount legislation, if I lived in La an all electric city might make for breathable air, but it will take rules to make it so. We may well find that Ic cars are barely allowed or severly restricted in Bejing or shanghai in the future, in which case I would want to be a tesla dealer in china. But my guess is the Chinese will not make severe restriction on IC over electric untill then ca build somethign liek a tesla or better, or untill they own tesla. Even then I shudder to think at the envior hazzard of 10 million electric cars being built and scrapped per year.

I am always reminded that when IC propulsion came in people thought it would make cities clean and habitable, so bad was the smell from horses.

 

If tracking were a major criteria, I wouldn't recommend a Model S. If I wanted a car I could drive daily with 4 doors and track, I'd probably get an M5.

However, I have other cars I can track, so the Model S is perfect for me. If I ever take it on the track, it will be a novelty, just to see what it's like.

I'm actually ordering a Porsche Cayman in part because I think it will be fun on the track as well as on the street.

The other big benefit of electric, and you touched on it, is that it's the ultimate flex-fuel. Electric cars are the easiest and cleanest way to run on natural gas, or nuclear (which I like, personally), or coal, or oil, or solar, or hydro, or whatever. Mine is mostly hydro...

 

What happens when servicing the car becomes too expensive as it ages? Who services it then? Once new cars fall out of warranty, most manufacturers only manage to keep around a third of their customers as service customers, the rest fall out to indy shops. If the Tesla requires dealer service, and service and repairs become too costly, people will complain, and it will hurt the brand image. This ( in my opinion ) is a struggle companies such as Volkswagen have been dealing with for years. People already think hybrids are super expensive to repair, when that superstition is backed up by hundreds of upset customers it will only fuel the fire

I think I am mostly curious to see what out of warranty repair costs will be on things. Granted most cars are still under warranty right now, but what if something breaks out of warranty? How much would new brakes cost? How about an ABS control module? Body control module? What are Tesla service centers charging for customer pay labor? It seems like they have that all monopolized at the moment, since I doubt an indy shop would touch one.

 

congratulations.

I'd rather shoot myself in the face than buy cars based on what consumer reports says.

I wouldn't trust them to a review an extension cord, much less an automobile.

enjoy your golf carts, but I'll have no part, thanks.

 

Sounds like a guy who wants to believe in investing in the stock?

 

JerryZ,

I see plenty of the Model S in Scottsdale. They're everywhere. Kind of the new "in" thing for the winter visitors that have too much money. Personally ... I think they look cool and my only issue is that they cost too much for an electric vehicle. People are not buying this car to save money on gas and where the electricity comes from (the grid) is probably fossil fuel sourced.

You've obviously done your research on the company and stock, but when you tell everyone on a Ferrari forum that the 430 is old school as compared to the highly digital Tesla .... you're not going to get many people on your side.

For what it worth ... I'm also looking at the Tesla. But only as DD .... not something to admire.

 

"I just wish they made the nice noises a combustion engine can make."

i had a second test drive today in a Model S P85. This time i was told to wait until cars ahead of me were 100 yards out when entering an open freeway ramp. "Floor it!" says the Tesla Rep. Floor it??? well, i pushed her kind of deep but by no means all the way, and the rep said, "you hear that?" It was one of the coolest sounds EVER! I'll describe it as the noise that a jet engine makes when your plane is taking off on the run way. The planes starts off slow but then the real power kicks in at about 5 to 10 seconds or so! That boost pushes you into your seat and your head flips backwards when you're on the plane. Well, on this test drive, i was thrown into my seat and the seatbelt tightened up on me. Yes...and i heard that jet engine like sound which was easy to do since there was silence all around us!

I've been told by my wife that i'm too much of a "black and white" typer of person...or was it, "one extreme or the other" type of person. We shall see if a Model S is in my near future or not but that would really prove that my wife is/was right. An insanely loud F430 parked next to an almost silent Model S. Sorry to hijack your thread a little bit! hope i contributed to TSLA stock price increasing!

 

Just got done with a project at one of Elon's other companies. I'm blown away by their vision. I'm not betting against anything he touches. Pioneers in a world of kings that sit on the throne of a ruled kingdom. And this is coming from someone who had a strong bias against electric cars.

 

For anyone who buys a new Tesla, try to not fall asleep while driving it and plow over some pedestrian! Tesla Driver Bizarrely Blames Deadly Accident On New-Car Smell

 

For me there are two type of cars.
- classics (vintage) driving experience: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso, Aston Martin DB4, ..
- modern high tech practical transportation

That latest type of cars will be replaced with the best current technology. So it makes sense that the Tesla concept will do well. If driving is purely practical, then yes this path does make perfect sense.

But if you want a pure driving experience, I don't think there is anything that comes close to a 60's GT. For other this may be a F40, and for some it means a more modern approach (458) but with a gasoline engine.

 

I just can't stand the idea that you have limited range - that just kills the idea of freedom in a car

 

I find it pretty funny, you claim the i8 and Fisker to be a joke and that they only take you less than 100 miles of range (electric). That may well be true, but for anyone that lives in the real world and on occasion drives more than 120 miles in a day (I do it 2-3 times a month currently, a lot of my friends at least twice a week, and that's not even taking in to account my friends/family etc in Europe that do it more often!) a Tesla is a simple no go.

If I was to drive from here to Johannesburg (430kms, so ~3 hours if I drive normally including borders), it'll take me 2 days. That's unacceptable. The roads are mostly 120km/h and a bit of town traffic. I did a little research and found out that I'd have to drive at <100km/h just to make it, and that's at a push. On a steep hill you'll use much more power and that'll reduce your battery significantly. And even then, you can't go anywhere after that because your car needs recharging, for 10 bloody hours.

So in my opinion, the Tesla is the one that's flawed (if you at times use it to go further than just your day job). The i8 will easily go anywhere I want to. You make a fair point on space and price, but for me that's worth it as I will actually get to my destination in due time (and not 5 hours) and then still get to use the thing as a car.

If I'd live back in Europe now I'd have the same problem but worse, as it'd drive >600km to a single destination for a weekend at least twice a month as well. So I'd have to buy a trailer and put it full of batteries just so I can make it.

You obviously stand by your E vehicle and that's great, but I don't want it, need it or can even use it, I have no interest in electric vehicles as I think the technology they use is already outdated and should just start focusing on hydrogen already. THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the TRUE green fuel and the future. Electricity is quite outdated and we won't see incredibly ranges from them.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-19/tesla-when-just-gaap-revenues-are-not-enough-unleash-non-gaap

Relevant to the thread...

 

I don't think your stats are correct.

I can easily get 200 miles on a charge going 85mph.

It then takes 30 mins of charge to go another 200 miles.

Indeed, the Tesla is not perfect, but please do not spread falsehoods about the car.


Kai

 

.

last weekend, i test drove a 1000hp twin turbo lambo and then the seller took me for a drive in his tesla.

every time he floored it, my head snapped back. trully snapped back. my takeaway was that the car seemed like the FUTURE and everything else is OLD.

i must say that i loved it (tesla) and will visit the dealer next week.

my plan was to buy another mb S65 or porsche panamera turbo but now i see a tesla in my future.

maybe they will be a flash in the pan, maybe not, but they ARE cool!

.

 

I'm all for Tesla as a company but as an investment I would be wary.

When a company grows to be this much of a public darling it usually becomes priced near or beyond it's current worth.

I try to be cautious when investing in companies who's products I have an emotional attachment to.

Tesla stock hits another high: Wildly overvalued?

 

Saw my first Arizona AAA emergency vehicle just for electric cars. No small pick-up or van, no, but a big industrial sized walk in van. On the side it said for Electric vehicle emergencies. Must be more inside than just a gas can and a tire inflator. How cool to have an exclusive emergency vehicle, just for your exclusive car. Wish Ferrari had emergency vehicles.

 

How far will it go when the temp is zero F?