Re Renault: Craig Scarborough has reported new information on this Renault problem on the Pit Stop Radio Show podcast on Monday evening. @ minute 14:17, after discussing the ES problem briefly, Craig then says the big problem is in the ERS-K system. He said the ERS-K was apparently bringing its power in too quickly back to the ICE mainshaft, causing failure in the ERS-K, and the crankcase itself. He said there is a fundamental problem with the shaft of the ERS-K. Consequently, they now have a big redesign. "For the rest of testing, they're going to have to without full ERS power... There is also some debate as to whether this part will be ready for Melbourne as well. So potentially for some of the first races the Renault engines could be handicapped because of this problem with this motor generator." That is the fourth person to report some information on this same problem... First the Judge from the Jerez paddock reported it directly, then Rob White of Renault Sport F1 alluded to this in his interview of Jan 31st, Gian Carlo Minardi's own article of Feb 13th had an obtuse reference to this, and now this Scarborough podcast interview describes it more directly
RB10 will be the only car with packaging that includes a fire extinguisher, and probably a tissue box.
We had a similar problem with our gearbox shaft. The KERS being instant 100% torque snapped the main shaft. We solved it by tapering the shaft so it acted like a torsion bar/spring.
Thanks for your input Jim, I am guessing the type of shaft material had to be reconsidered as well? Is this something that could only be evaluated at the track? Renault has the facilities to dyno test and run track simulations so I wonder what the disconnect was from dyno room to circuit testing.
I would venture a guess that 1:36.880 is not the fastest time we'll see this week. I'm with F-Pilot in that I think we'll see something in the neighborhood of 1:34 when all is said and done. Power-wise, they have the potential for more but the lowered aero packages mean the cars aren't quite as stable in cornering. Still, if they finish off by 2 secs to LY, that will be much better than the 7 sec gap from Jerez.
I hear that Mclaren is looking awfully good. Very nice sharp front end. I think it's safe to say these drivetrains do have a bit more power than the V8s. It's conjectured the MB unit has about 660 or so bhp from the engine and another 160 from the ERS motor, and of course gobs more torque. I wouldn't be surprised if we see speeds quicker than 2013 spec cars by 2015.
Does anyone have stint breakdowns that show which teams have run the longest runs & sims so far this year?
Electric machines snapping crankshafts in hybrid vehicle applications is a problem colleagues of me have also at their test bed setup. The shafts of normal engines are not designed to take that kind of load transients. I would have supposed Renault knew that and took care of the problem during component design.
Unfortunately it's not published this year, but I know MB has run a race distance and ran something like 19 consecutive laps today, followed mclaren who did 17.
Hard to say. The shaft that gave us trouble was in the gearbox. Once fixed it's fine but it took a while to figure out.
I remember hearing that Ferrari ran a long run near the end of the Jerez test. Some called it a race sim as well. Anyone else remember that?
I really enjoy your input, thank you! Fully agreed, I thought this would have been something Renault saw and accounted for many months ago. I would think that a shaft acting somewhat like a torsion had would indeed require a serious upgrade to the housing of both the turbo and mgu-h.
They have completed long runs but I don't think they have done a race distance yet. Wish we knew more this year!
When asked if there was more performance available to Mercedes from its power unit, Hamilton confirmed the team was running with the engine turned down. “We can [turn it up] if we need to, but we don't need to right now. I have no idea [how much], there are so many different engine maps I don't know which one it is; they just tell me to put it in one. But I'm told there is more…” - Hamilton Someone correct me if I'm wrong about customer teams, but it's my understanding each team is supplied basic engine maps, but they are basic ie. a starting point. The more advanced maps are developed specifically by the teams.
I think the longest stint they had in Jerez was 34 laps (can't remember if it was Alonso or Raikkonen though)
Not certain but most teams have made it clear that they are not maxing out the engines power at this point. They are more concerned with reliability and ensuring they've nailed that challenge. As I posted before, I highly doubt that 1:36.8 will be the fastest time we see posted this session.
IIRC, it was Merc that did one really long run - about 125% race distance if memory serves, but I'm sure Fpiloto will correct me if needed. As for today, here you go; From the Autosport live feed. Unfortunately, it doesn't tell us how many they ran at once, but it's better than nothing I guess. Also suggests Caterham may be in the best position of the Renault runners!...... They also did many laps in Jerez. Cheers, Ian
If I remember correctly (question mark here, take it with a grain of salt), the problem occured when the engine was under load and the electric machine was switched on in generator mode, ie the crankshaft had the combustion torque in one and the machine torque in the other direction, both adding up. To complicate things, the machine torque acts on the flywheel side of the engine where traditionally no additional load occurs. In the end, the shafts often snapped.
Actually, it was more than race distance. I recall during the stint mentioned below that he completed around 34-35 laps non-stop. Alonso and Ferrari will also be satisfied with the work done as they notched up a a very handy 115 laps on the day, and 173 during his two days in the cockpit of the F14T. Read more http://grandprix247.com/2014/01/31/jerez-day-4-massa-fastest-as-mercedes-teams-impress-while-renault-brigade-are-in-big-trouble/
Ted from SkySports reported it out but for the life of me I can't find that clip anymore. I did find this bit of info though while looking for the clip: Total pre-season laps by each team so far Mercedes - 383. McLaren - 326. Ferrari - 315. Sauber - 245. Force India - 224. Williams - 180. Caterham - 144. Toro Rosso - 59. Red Bull - 35. Marussia - 33. Lotus - 8.
