David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

My understanding is that 0900 is a car constructed from the correct ferrari components of the specification to which it alludes to, therefore it is hardly a replica. It is more a continuation, especially given the support from the original manufacturer.

A replica is a facsimile, or something that appears to look like something else, made from non original parts. The components from 0900 could be removed and re-used on the other cars mentioned of the same specification, would that then make them replicas?

My other understanding is that Jim purchased one of his examples from David Piper on the basis that it was in his words above therefore a replica? what then changed to make it original instead?

Genuine question not meant to offend anyone, I think every iteration is a fantastic car in its own right.

 

0846's chassis was made in period by Ferrari. David's "0900" chassis was not made in period by Ferrari.

Despite what David claims about his using #0900 as a chassis # for his P4 Replica the only Ferrari S.p.A paperwork using "0900" refers to Chinetti's 312PB AFAIK.

The engine in P4 Replica "0900" is not a P4 engine but a 350 Can Am engine with the same serial# stampings as the engine in Ferrari 350 Can Am 0858 currently fitted with a replica P4 body.

 

Both made by Vaccari & Bosi as the other prototype chassis were.

 

True but "0900" was not made in period, nor at the behest of Ferrari, and has no period racing history.

All of these cars are what they are and aren't what they are not.

 

Why am I reminded of people who try to clone deceased pets?

 

A chassis is though but one of a vast number of components required by a car?

Non factory new chassis are available for many classic cars, and examples that use these still retain the provenance of the original car, as these chassis are just replacement components like any other.

So 0900 has a reproduction chassis, what else on it is repro and what is the tipping point regarding quantity of original and non original parts whereby an item goes from continuation to replica?

If I put a reproduction panel on my car, does it then make the whole car a replica?

If someone has just a chassis can they claim to have an actual car? what if that chassis is one that was replaced in period? we now have two chassis, the original and the replacement. Which is the correct one.

I know the discussion is as old as the ship of Theseus and has been around since cars first appeared, old number 1 etc and really does it matter? if there is a tangible asset that is the equivalent of the original in my eyes its just as good.

 

Double negative means they are. Only joking, Jim.

 

It'd be awesome to drop that 0858 motor in a dachshund replica and go out looking for continuation greyhounds.

 

Does Ferrari regard 0900 as a ferrari or do they regard it as something else?

 

That's a good question !

 

Adulation? Seriously? I hardly think so.
Not for a whored-up toad of a REPLICA....

 

Ferrari has not been one mans opinion for a very long time, its an ever evolving entity, people come, people go, corporate opinions change over time

You can only value Ferraris real opinion at the point in time in which the deal was done, at that time Mr Ferrari sanctioned it, so thats all that matters.

 

I will use Steves post as he knows far more on the subject than I ever will.

So if a P4 owner had a major shunt which warranted a new chassis being made, and they went to the original maker above and had one built, does that then mean that person no longer owns a P4 as the chassis swap was not carried out in period? and it becomes a replica

 

As you correctly stated that is my opinion, therefore how can it be wrong, you may not agree with it as you have every right to do , but thats my opinion so not wrong to me, wrong to you yes.

I have not lectured anyone, I believe you have confused me with someone else? I am in no way an expert just an interested outsider offering a reasoned opinion.

I would be interested to hear your opinion about my post just above regarding a current P4 owner requiring a chassis replacement. In your opinion would the car then be a replica or not?

 

Sanctioned 0900 at that time as a Ferrari or a Piper using mostly Ferrari spares?

Ferrari now confirm some junk thrown in a bin and thought to be dead and gone, is now alive and well and being enjoyed by JG. It would be interesting to see how they view 0900.

 

Sorry, never mind.

Best of luck!

 

Here is more food for thought. David Piper takes 0900 and another recognised P4, he dismantles them down to the smallest component, puts the recognisable parts from each car in a separate corner. He then mixes up all the common parts of each car and then rebuilds both cars from this pile.

He does this with no one else knowing, and then puts both cars up for sale. Which is the replica and which is the genuine article?

 

Half of each is the genuine article IMO.

 

The answer is continuous history, so now the car would be what it was and is but with a replica chassis.

Your view of #0900 not being a replica is weird. I could make a 100% accurate GT40 ... That does not make it real, just a very accurate replica. A car is either a replica or not, there are no inbetweens ... Like your wife/girl friend is never sort of pregnant.
Pete

 

yes but your GT40 would be made completely of non period, non factory parts, so yes it is a replica, that's not the case at all with 0900, plus its construction was sanctioned by the factory at the time it was built, and in the period in which it was raced. A very big difference.

 

They're both compromised and neither original.

 

This seems like a reasonable question

It's hard to argue with the above comment. Calling #0900 original is obviously incorrect, but if the facts in the quoted post above are correct, dismissing it into the broad category of "replica" seems wrong and gratuitously inflammatory. What am I missing?

 

But, and its a big but, unless David Piper had told you what he did, then you, the market or anyone apart from David piper would ever know, thats the point I am making.

Purely shooting the breeze on the matter but hoping it gets people thinking

 

I agree its not an original factory P4, its a car made of P4 components to P4 specification which raced in the corrrect period, so in essence a continuation not a replica.

Many racing cars are constructed from components, rather than purchased complete from the manufacturer, they are always still regarded as the car in question.

 

Are you positing that if someone misrepresents an item in the market place it's not an issue until he's caught in his lie?