458's successor engine speculation

Ferrari's model life cycle is 6 years, not 5.

Otherwise spot on. Remember, the 458 successor will be unveiled at Geneva next year, if there were any KERS or hybrid-drive solution planned for the car they would have been well into it's development now.

Considering how short time until they actually need to have the technical aspects of the car pretty much all clear (10-11 months). KERS is not happening when you look at the current situation with hybrid supercars, which are million dollar machines.

Expecting that they will release a regular Ferrari with the same technology as their hyper car almost in tandem with the hyper car production stage is never going to happen. I think people who are rooting for KERS in the successor forget that the car is only a year away, not 2-5 years. Hence KERS will not be a feature on Ferrari's in general (458 is the oldest model in the current range) for at least 7 years if I'm correct. (unless they launch a new model segment) In 7 years time the cost of development and production of KERS related hardware and software will be much cheaper than it is today. Not to mention performance and effiency of the batteries and motors which will be many times better.

 

Yep!

SV

 

All three will be sharing the same platform but variations on engine options
Obviously all three cars will look totally different from each other

 

Not sure where you are getting your information but the 458 replacement is 4-5 years away. Not one. Ferrari has basically come right out and said it. If there truly was a replacement coming to Geneva next year there would be spyshots galore by now.

 

I think not.

The 458 was unveiled in 2009 (Geneva) and the California, in 2008 (Paris). The California T will be shown in Geneva this year so it makes sense that the 458 replacement will debut in 2015… 6 years.

The F430 which preceded the 458 was also in production for 6 years.

 

The wide speculation is a new engine platform for the 458 replacement in 4 years. There are several sources available right now that all say that very thing. Explain to me how you put an engine due in four years in a car you are going to unveil in one?

Just because they have followed a 6 year track with previous models doesn't etch their future in stone.

The first spy photos of the 458 appeared in 2007 followed by the eventual unveiling at Frankfurt in 2009. If we were going to see the replacement in one year's time we would have SOME information by now.

 

2 good points. No test mules of 458 replacement. We saw mules for the Speciale and Huracan in the year or so before unveiling. 458 Spider continues to be a hot-seller, why not milk the proverbial cow for another couple years?

Look at how Lambo and Porsche do it, parts-bin special editions galore at the end of the model run.

 

"Replacement" and "mid cycle update" mixing up again going in here. 430 and 575 and Cali T are mid cycle updates. 458 was a "replacement", as was 599 and F12. I think most observers believe a 458 "replacement" is not going to happen for several years. Most of those same observers expect a 458 "mid cycle update" in 2015 or 2016. The engine choice for that car is the subject of much speculation, but any signs that exist point to a turbo v8 with mid 600s HP.




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Simple...those that don't consistently move forward...fall behind! I would expect the replacement at the Frankfurt show in 2015.

 

This^^^

The 430 was just a 360 with a new motor and refreshed bodywork - same PLATFORM - IT WAS NOT AN ENTIRELY NEW MODEL. If it was just a displacement boost, they could have called it a 360M, just as there was a 456/456M and the 550/575M: Those PLATFORMS ran for ten years!

The 458 PLATFORM is not done. It's a very popular car. Since the Cali-T came out, it seems obvious that Ferrari will go with forced induction for the next generation of cars with less than 12 cylinders (While LaFerrari hints at a generation of hybrids with some kind of ERS to follow).

NA engines are great... until they can't compete anymore.

Cheers,

George

 

Agreed.

 

I have learnt that the 'new' 458 will be more of a 360/430 type evolution, not an all new design. Turbo as we now know, and given how they have had to down tune the Cali engine, power and especially torque will not be a problem.

 

A fettled 458 with turbo is what's coming.

You won't see a mule, Ferrari have got wise to all the boys with cameras.

My guess is that the engine results from the California T will give them all the data they need to make it work superbly in the 458.

They'll no doubt relish the opportunity to produce a 458 with 620+ BHP to beat McLaren and Lamborghini.

I don think from a business perspective they could have it any other way. It'll be check mate for boys in Woking.

 

Actually there was a 458 turbo mule circulating Fiorano recently.

 

+1

I'm talking about 458 replacement, I believe you are talking about mid-cycle update. I would expect some cosmetic and functional structural changes to 458 with engine change perhaps being greatest difference i.e. going turbo.

+1. Cali-T is an evolution rather than replacement.

 

Traveller, thanks for your information. You seem to have a better contact than most. What is your best estimation for the 458 "refresh" ie styling tweek/turbo? I am on the list for a Speciale but probably won't get an allocation until spring 2015 meaning later 2015 delivery.

 

Any videos that you know of??

 

Videos and pictures online don't ever cover 1/10th of all the mules you can see around Maranello (although the carparazzi is getting "better" over the years). Doubt there is any video. If there was it would have been all over the internet.

 

Are you actually being serious or just trolling?

Oh wait, you just joined and have less than a dozen posts....

 

Spider might be selling but orders for the coupe are barely coming in. I heard a number for how many Coupe's that have been ordered at the factory within the last few months of 2013 and the first few of this year (winter season basically), but it was so unbeliably low I wouldn't dare post it here in case I start a rumour mill...

 

Yes, I hadn't seen any and figured that if there had been a turbo-mule someone (like you) would have caught it.

 

Is the coupe going to go the way of the manual gearbox I wonder ...
Pete

 

I remember my post in the "458 replacement" thread a few weeks ago.

There's a lot of speculation going around in this forum. Let me just give my 2 cents to this discussion here:

There's no way KERS will be fitted to the sports car range of Ferrari in the near future till 2020/2021. (LaF is the exemption from the rule). That is what Felisa 1000 times repeated in interviews.

Let alone emissions in the EU: As I stated before small carmakers under 20k units will not be under the fleet regime the EU has passed. Ferrari is not BMW in this respect. All Ferrari has to prove to the EU by 2020/21 is a "significant reduction in CO2" emissions. And these boutique carmakers will not be gruped to their mother companies (Fiat to Ferrari, Jaguar to Ford) but will be regarded as independent entities by this law, ok? They already proved substantial CO2 reduction with the 458 Italia and they can go further this way by using sophisticated techniques for N/A engines like "Zylinderabschaltung" to further cut emissions and using a N/A. The c7 corvette already introduced this successfully.

To be competitive in the California 2+2 segment they had no other way than using a turbo engine. The clientele of the California car is a bit different to the 458 clientele, I would say. They can live with that.

2020/21 is a perfect date for Ferrari as it perfectly fits in the model cycle of the V8 Berlinetta. By this time the very new car will be presented. 2015 we will see the evolution as it has always been.

What is a challenge to get out more power from the NA engine as many have said in this thread. and I think its true they have not yet exactly decided what to do. Thats why theyre developng two V8 plattforms, which is clever and safe. Theres no guarantee that the new NA engine will deliver the desired power becuase it is at its limits. But I think and hope that Ferrari will find a way to do that! So my bet is for a NA engine.

 

I remember my post in the "458 replacement" thread a few weeks ago.

There's a lot of speculation going around in this forum. Let me just give my 2 cents to this discussion here:

There's no way KERS will be fitted to the sports car range of Ferrari in the near future till 2020/2021. (LaF is the exemption from the rule). That is what Felisa 1000 times repeated in interviews.

Let alone emissions in the EU: As I stated before small carmakers under 20k units will not be under the fleet regime the EU has passed. Ferrari is not BMW in this respect. All Ferrari has to prove to the EU by 2020/21 is a "significant reduction in CO2" emissions. And these boutique carmakers will not be gruped to their mother companies (Fiat to Ferrari, Jaguar to Ford) but will be regarded as independent entities by this law, ok? They already proved substantial CO2 reduction with the 458 Italia and they can go further this way by using sophisticated techniques for N/A engines like "Zylinderabschaltung" to further cut emissions and using a N/A. The c7 corvette already introduced this successfully.

To be competitive in the California 2+2 segment they had no other way than using a turbo engine. The clientele of the California car is a bit different to the 458 clientele, I would say. They can live with that.

2020/21 is a perfect date for Ferrari as it perfectly fits in the model cycle of the V8 Berlinetta. By this time the very new car will be presented. 2015 we will see the evolution as it has always been.

What is a challenge to get out more power from the NA engine as many have said in this thread. and I think its true they have not yet exactly decided what to do. Thats why theyre developng two V8 plattforms, which is clever and safe. Theres no guarantee that the new NA engine will deliver the desired power becuase it is at its limits. But I think and hope that Ferrari will find a way to do that! So my bet is for a NA engine.

 

Thanks for your take on this - BTW Ford and Jaguar are no longer jointly owned