72 Dino GT Chairs & Flares at Gooding Amelia

WOW!

 

I am calling the bubble. And to think I passed on one in 1986 that had an asking price of 15k (246 non-chairs and flares as I recall).

 

I was there. The Dinos were neat cars. Bidding was hot for sure.

 

Besides being one owner, how nice was the gt?

I am going to sell my gts (chairs no flares), as I don't drive it very often and I am out of room.

 

My guy bought both, please let me know when you want to sell yours and for what price . I have a buyer today for a good car

 

My 206 is in process of one of my typical restorations. He already has my coupe lets set a record with my 206. Choose the color now!!

 

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original color

 

Crazy prices. Gonna pop soon methinks.

Very pretty cars though.

 

Burst the way 430s, 458s, and SuperAmericas have? I don't think so.... At least when the Dino bubbles have burst in the past, the Dinos climb back up, unlike those three.

 

Same guy bought these that bought your coupe

 

Pm sent

 

Ryan -

For comparison purposes:

How much did the 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera 2.7 RS Lightweight (Lot 10) go for? (estimated $900,000 to $1,100,000)

How much did the 1972 Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona (Lot 34) go for? (estimated $750,000 to $825,000)

How much did the 1963 Porsche 356 Carrera 2 Coupe (Lot 39) go for? (estimated $550,000 to $650,000)

Can you comment on the condition of these comp cars?

 

Not just Dinos, but the huge run up in collector car prices in general. I may well be wrong, but the last 3-4 years have many signs of a classic bubble market. And sure, there will be a be a climb back up after the pop. Everything is cyclical, even awesome little cars like the Dino.

Not sure what you're getting at by comparing them to modern cars, which depreciate like pretty much any other modern car.

 

Both the Daytona and the 2.7 RS Lightweight were in superior condition. The Chairs and Flares 246 was not.

 

This is what I find troubling. It is across the board.

What I find funny is the old guard of Ferrari "experts" shunned the Dino until prices started to rise.

 

What was the original color?

 

^ i think it was dark red, non met

 

The 430s, 458s, etc. all have burst within a very short period of time, and their chances of any type of recovery are negligible. In particular, their production numbers are high (but not high enough to ensure adequate parts supplies for very complicate components), their electronics are extremely complicated, and long term reliability is extremely suspect such that those cars may not even be repairable in 10-15 years time.

Interestingly, the same is NOT necessarily true for other modern sports cars from companies with surer financial footing and/or much larger production volumes in their high-end sports cars, such as those from Porsche and Mercedes - which go out of their way to maintain "classic" parts supply lines.

 

I think we are using different definitions of the term "bubble", hence some confusion. I would disagree with you that 430s, 458s, or any other modern series production car (thus excluding super rare stuff like an Enzo) ever had what I would call a bubble. Sure, there are a few people that may pay over MSRP for a hot new model when it first comes out, and those temporarily higher prices are simply a function of supply and demand. Everybody involved knows with certainty that those prices will not be sustained, and the car will eventually depreciate just like every other modern car from a Toyota Camry to a Rolls Royce.

When I think of the term bubble, I think of something that had a given (low) price, which then rises rapidly in value due to various external factors. Eventually the rate of rise has to stop, and there is usually a precipitous fall. This has happened countless times from the recent real estate bubble, dot com and other stock bubbles, to the collector car bubble in the late 80's. I just don't think the fundamentals are there to forevermore hold Dino values at $500K, muscle car values at $1MM, etc. I'm not just picking on Dinos (I love Dinos!), I just think the same bubble is inflating almost the entire collector car market. If you study the collector car bubble of the late 80's there are a lot of similarities to what is going on now. But like I said, I could be wrong! Maybe we will all be talking about $5 million dollar Dinos in a few years, and wishing we had bought one when they were cheap and only cost $500K!

 

Serious question - What do you consider "the signs" that this is a bubble?
High prices alone?


While rising prices may make one reluctant for not picking one up earlier that does not mean it constitutes a bubble. I respectively counter that there are signs this is not a "classic bubble market" :

1) Real buyers are purchasing these In the past, a bubble indicator was when speculators were buying these, not end consumers. Recent sales have been to new owners making this a solid foundation for rising prices.

2) Ongoing Price spread. Dinos were around $15k when they came out. The runt. A gamble by Enzo. Countering this the price spread between Dinos and similar cars of the time (308's, Boxers, ect.) has continually grown over time. This has been a long term trend.

3) Restoration costs are higher than ever. $150k-$200k could easily be spent in a high end restoration and that factors into end pricing. Dinos are rust buckets requiring labor intensive work to correct.

4) Baseline shifting upward. The average Dino is no longer in average condition. Many have been restored, pushing average prices higher.

5) Class shifting, Last of the Enzo era with chrome bumpers. More akin to the 250/275 series than ever before, following their pricing moves. In the 80's I would go to the Concours events and see the Dinos in the 206/308/328 class. The Dino has shed that and is now truly vintage, making it pull away.

6) Limited production. Even lower numbers today. When the count is finally made, I believe there has been serious attrition and many Dinos had been scrapped years ago

7) Versatile, all around performer. The Dino can be shown, driven and easily repaired.

8) PF declared Top Ten achievements. PininFarina declared the Dino as one of their top ten designs of all time. Personally I see a lot of Dino design cues in the 250LM

 

I think I agree.
I also believe strongly in the concept of fundamentals, and if we are going to be cold hearted about this, and just consider the Dino from an investment perspective ,for a moment.
The number of cars left on the road is very relevant , and if there are now less than 3000 examples in existence, then the forces of supply and demand, will probably be a sustaining factor for the prices going forwards, initially for the rarer 206 and C&F cars, of course but in the end, like everything in life, this will have an inevitable upwards effect on the more 'standard' Dino's, as well.
I also see ,like synchro, that the pure design status element of the Dino , will ensure it stays on the radar of enthusiasts,collectors and speculators alike.
I also stand to be corrected about any of the above, however the bottom line is..... you can print more money , and dig more gold out of the ground......but there are never going to be more Dino 206/246 coming out of those gates in Maranello!
Jez