Espada thread

Man, I don't know about thse 2 guys, Lopez and Lux (from Lotus).....Well, Lopez is up to his ass in his racing team which is always on the brink of financial failure. Just ask Kimi R. So getting anything from Lopez is useless, especially his attention.

You may want to search the Jarama Thread. I have a 71 Jarama and I firmly believe I was smart, I had Chad Bolles, who has been working on mine, scrap the original boosters as they are a complete failure, won't last, and is completely antiquated and unreliable. We install something that was more modern and safe.
Just ask a few vintage Lambo owner who have had theirs fail buy not stopping and crashing or the opposite by locking up and skidding to a stop and not being able to move it.
So, please, know you have choices. You may also contact Chad Bolles or one of the other members here that are across the pond in you neck of the woods.

PS, important that Olivier is your friend if you are a Jarama owner.....lots of knowledge and help.

 

Welcome on this board Bernhard.

As we discussed privately, I'm confirming also to have inspected this Espada at Florent Moulin's place in Luxembourg in presence of a Lamborghini owner wishing to buy it.

After my inspection, I adviced the gentleman to not buy this car, because of its bad shape speaking about its interior, non original paint scheme, poor presentation level of engine bay.

Moulin argued this car was Tonino Lamborghini's personnal car, what he was not able to prove due to lack of documentation.

I never gave him the confirmation #7545 was Tonino’s Espada, NEVER, he is a liar.

I’ve interviewed Tonino Lamborghini multiple times for my book preparation, and I asked him if he remember to have owned an Espada Argento/brown interior, he said never.

Then to be more accurate, I show him Moulin’s Espada pictures, he still said no.

Then, I told him this Espada #7545 was “verde padillo/verdo scuro interior and he said may be.

BUT, a couple months later, I met him again and he said that he remember to have bought a secondhand Espada, verde/verde.

But, he cannot remember the VIN chassis/telaio.

According to him it was a S3 not a S2, because of the power assisted steeringwheel.

I check the factory records/files, there are some Espada verde/verde.... so which one is the correct Espada to have belonged to Tonino ?

Because you can prove it belongs to you, why don't you ask a Lambo dealer to have a factory statement about #7545 ?

 

Did you ask Stefan ****z of Toro Ricambi in Germany ? Ricambi Toro - Faszination Lamborghini - Ricambi Toro - Ersatzteile für klassische Lamborghinis

here is his phone : 0911 30006200

 

You are probaby quite right with respect to the "focus" of those businessmen.

With respect to the original boosters (which are the same as those in the Espada Ser. II, I believe), I initially made similar experiences, at least with respect to ocassional blocking up, but maybe some 18 years ago overhauled them myself. This included, of course, using the repair kit, but also modifying the internals a bit. I fitted a stronger spring in the pneumatic box and replaced the (aged, hardened) leather ring (having some kind of foam ring as support) by a custom made viton ring seal for the pneumatic piston. Afterwards there were no brake problems any more, actually the braking behavior improved significantly (fine linear response to the paddel, lower pedal force), comparable to modern cars, actually. OK, it took 2 or 3 tries for finding the most appropriate spring rate.

The Espada has modern boosters fitted and whereas they probably work fine (up to date the fastest speed I rode in the Espada was 20 km/h maybe) they really do not look "right" for me.

 

Thank you, Olivier, for your kind information provided in our previous contact, and once again for this recomendation. I know Stefan and will ask him, if I do not find out by myself.

By the way, several sources offer nos (?) brake master cylinders as allegedly fitting to Espada and Countach. They definitely do not fit the Espada up to Ser. II (or the Jarama) and are completely different mechanically and with respect to placement of the brake line connectors.

 

Thank you, Olivier, I will ask Stefan, whom I know, for a brake master cylinder service kit.

I actually did (and do) not mind about the somewhat ratty interior (this will be redone in the near future) and the wrong piant scheme. When I received the car I was somewhat startled by some other issues.

While at the fair the car had stood with apparently normal ride height in the front, it was extremely low in the front upon arrival. Inspection showed really dangerous manipulation of the suspension. The front springs were cut short in an absolutely amateur manner and to a dimension that allows the upper spring support members to come loose. Actually, on one side, the spring was already supported not by the shock, but the chassis member, were the shock is attached, because the support members had jumped out. Not to speak of the tire marks in the front wings. Two pictures are attached. These parts are replaced in the meanwhile by proper springs and shocks, which I luckily had laying around .

Aside this, the car has many "modifications", probably believed as "improvements", which were done in a quite disgusting manner. For example, the drivers seat was "lowered" by extremely crudely cutting down the seat body and rewelding, including weld-attaching the seat rails. I spent a weekend reversing all of this "improvement", so that the seat body now is "original" again (mechanically and in dimensions) and fully functional (including back and forth). Admittently it does not look really fine still, but no one can see it. Since I know, however, I will replace the seat body as soon as I come across a seat at reasonable price.

The steering wheel is original now again, but this exchange was not straightforward either. A wrong steering wheel shaft was mounted for fitting of the ugly Momo. Just this weekend I reworked the existing shaft to take the original steering wheel. Fortunately I have a lathe and with this it was quite easy to make the proper conus on the shaft and to make and fit the key element securing the steering wheel against turning on the shaft.

The car smokes considerably and I still have to decide whether I will do something about that or not (compression is OK).

The front chassis cross member (below/behind radiator) will need to be straightened, since some freaks have frequently jacked the car up on this member (please never do this with an Espada or Jarama, except if a strong wooden support is used, which has the full lenghth of this cross member). It is strongly bent, so that I suspect that the front suspension geometry might even be affected.

Here are the suspension photos. I admit that someone might think this is an improvement also, since you would no longer need a spring tensioner for shock replacement ... At the cost of occasionally collapsing front suspension, as soon as the two visible support member jump out when crossing a bump ....
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Hi Peter,

I keep hearing this but mine were rebuilt by Ron Karp (I think) by the PO and they've been just fine so far. My calipers as well. All of my brake hoses as well as the clutch hose were changed. Those were ballooning internally in the rear. Now I know Jack finally gave up on the ones in his 400 but then his don't show so visibly in the engine compartment.

It's not that I disagree about there being better, more modern stuff out there, that's usually the case, it's just that I haven't had the awful luck some have had?

 

Absolutely right and the same for the rear!

 

Absolutely correct from my experience. I change the brake hoses every ten years, presently once again. Amazing, while I did not yet notice any change in braking behavior, I did not manage to blow through the hoses by mouth due to internal balloning.

I personally do not think of replacing them by allegedly modern long term material made with a PTFE lining and being ss braided. These hoses are intended for motorcycles and race cars with comparatively small movements between the components. On the front axle of a road car, these hoses will, short or long, break suddenly at one of the fittings, since there considerable bending forces are applied at least upon full steering in. In race cars these hoses are replaced very frequently, and this not just for fun.

 

I completely lost the rear brakes though no leaks were evident. I had thought it was the master or worse, a dreaded booster failure but this was a pleasant surprise.

I used DOT approved normal hoses from a Jaguar. They fit perfectly and were extremely reasonable.

I've had the SS braided PTFE hydraulic hoses on the LMH system in my Bora for 30K miles and many many years now. No issues that I've noticed?

 

original brake oil pipes were completely replaced back in 2009 on my Jarama GTS with Stainless Braided Brake Hoses in addition to 2x new Lockheed servos brake...

this upgrade didn't avoid me in 2013 to not hit another Lambo during an event...
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If they are selected and fitted well, they should last some time. Probably yours are a bit longer than the standard hoses, thus avoiding too strong bending forces at the fittings upon full steer-in. And the guy fitting them knows very very well what he does, in particular avoiding any torsion forces in the fitting regions during fitting. And completely avoiding "drill" forces between the fitted ends. For example one quarter of a turn "drill" force (occurs easily when one end is fixed and the other turns a bit upon fixing) is deadly for the PTFE hoses, whereas rubber hoses don´t mind such "laissez faire".

The bad point is that they break suddenly and without that visual inspection gives you a warning (the rubber hoses will look really bad for years until they break). And lead to immediate brake failure. Plenty people around having experienced that, mostly while slowly driving at full steer-in. Since at speed you rarely steer excessively (except the drifters, naturally, but not with a Bora supposedly ), the risk of breaking at speed is rather low, fortunately. In the most cases people mess up the drive in front of the garage with brake fluid.

This is actually the reason, why the hoses were illegal in Germany until just recently. Due to EC regulations they have now become legal also in Germany.

Bora, a great car that I always was considering and would have loved to own, gratulations. I personally, however, tend to prefer front engined cars, because I probably have too much respect of sometimes nasty mid-engine car behavior, in particular in the wet. When having the great opportunity of driving a Miura in the dry on a German highway, I became somewhat scared by the car ...

 

Oh no! By brake failure?

Those Lockheeds are the same as fitted to my Espada by the pre-owner and I would consider exchanging them against the original Girlings, if the brackets had not been cut off for fitting the Lockheeds ...

 

not failure exactly, brakes blocked so the car kept going straight without direction...

 

Sounds like booster, in particular not releasing properly ...

 

ok guys, you have good points and I guess if the fluid is maintained after a rebuild, it would then last awhile and be pretty reliable.
I am happy with what I did.......wait, how can I be happy.......I haven't even seen my car with them, let alone drive it hahaha

 

OH MAN! I guess I missed reading that it was another Lamborghini you hit. Yikes!

 

The Bora is a much more user friendly car to drive than a Miura. It has designed in understeer at the limit instead a quick transition to oversteer. Of course there ARE still limitations to that. Stupid is still stupid. It's a sporty GT car as opposed to a raw edged sports car. Much more like an Espada in that regard.

 

Actually I think Chad parted it out it six months ago. I know I got fuel manifold set for my Espada from him ... But do keep sending out those checks Peter ...

 

This Sunday I spent the day with some details on the long way to make the Espada usable and reliable. The main task of the day: replacement of the fule hose running through the car as one piece from the fuel filter (rear right, underneath) to the engine bay (front left). Other fuel hoses had been replaced at some time (not really well, although, one being in contact with one end-silencer!), but this one was factory original (!). Actually falling apart upon any movement and the reason for the fuel smell inside and the gas drops behind the left front wheel when the car was left standing with running engine. It is, of course, a pain to replace this specific hose. It runs from the engine bay through an aperture into the left corner of the drivers footwell. Then along the inner side of the sill, through another aperture under der left rear seat, and through a further aperture being placed almost centrally out, over the diff and transmission shaft to the filter. Secured along the path with the common bent metal tongues (about 10) and under the sound-damping material, which is glued to the sill, *sigh*.

I always wonder about why most people do not appear to mind the important security issue of fresh fuel hoses along the whole way. In all cars, which I have aquired over the time, specifically those fuel hoses, which are difficult to replace, were quite rotten, however shiny the rest of the car was. Nevertheless how cumbersome replacement may be, who likes to really risk firing up his car (in a literal sense)? Worst replacement job was in a 1970 Ghibli, the hoses from the tanks to the change-over valve, it is a tanks out job (through the luggage compartment after disassembly of all the interior trim in the rear). The Espada job was, in comparison, quite straightforward and smooth ...

 

I hope it is indeed that simple in your case.

Mine, a 71, was an enormous task.

I had the gas smell as well and the PO had already replaced that line with a piece of AeroQuip SS braided hose but the interior still stunk of gas and I was determined to remediate that.

So here's what I learned in my situation.

After completely restoring the carbs, restoring the original fuel filter assembly and installing a new filter I took the newly running beast on a voyage with my wife back to our town home garage for some final sorting Tuning. Hah!

We never got there as the new fuel filter soon impacted and left us stranded on a major highway on a very busy Friday night and by the time we got towed back to the storage garage we were locked out and could not retrieve our regular car. We were stranded 80 miles from home.

This meant staying in a terrible local motel that night with no luggage or bathroom supplies.

Enormous motivation was thus created to SOLVE this issue.

Both tanks had minor interior but sufficient enough rust which had caused the filter impact.

The tanks had to be restored. (another story)

In order to remedy the gas smell I found:

1. That the carpet involved had to be cleaned extensively.
2. Some had to be replaced.
3. The underlayment had to be replaced along the door edge, under the rear seat on that side and under the drivers foot well area as well.

Still not enough.

So I pressure tested all of the fuel system hoses as well as the tanks with about 2-3 psi and found:

The hoses from the filler neck to the tank neck were leaking (very hard to get a good seal due to the design and awkwardness of installation).

Tank breather hoses and check valves need replacing because they no longer sealed properly.

After numerous tests with the new system maintaining a slight pressure over a week's time plus all of the contaminated material having been removed I once gain could leave the car closed up and it would no longer wreak of gas after that amount of time.

Plus there are a number of "while your at it" type jobs to address when you have all of that rear cargo interior stuff and tanks removed. The numerous drain hoses etc. in the rear flanks should be check at this time. (another story)

In the end I decided on a hard aluminum line bent in place running from the rear up into the engine compartment along the same route as that of the rubber hose with a fixed AN bulkhead fitting at each end. I hope that will be the end of the interior fuel problem from that long hose at least.

The fuel filler hoses will still require attention over the years as basically most of the fuel system except for the filter and pump are on the interior of the car. Only some superficial fiberglass and expensive leather separate it from the passenger compartment. Absolutely nuts IMHO but then we do love these cars right? Also absolutely nuts!

Other folks not wanting to get into quite this much work have used marine grade fuel hose from the rear to the front but it's still rubber. The Aeroquip stuff was already shot after 3 or 4 years of use.

Looking at the situation again I don't really see why a standard metal line cannot be run on the underside of the car instead? I have other cars with similar clearance and they do it this way. Maybe I'm missing something?

I also dumped the original filter housing in the rear as it was very hard to change. Many so called replacement filters didn't actually fit properly. It was also hard to seal and access sucks. In the end just adding a loop of fuel hose in a location not directly over a hot rear muffler then using a simple, easily obtainable, metal inline FI grade filter seemed prudent. I'm very happy about having done this.

I also added a small billet microfilter ahead of the fuel rail in the engine compartment.

One filter contamination episode was enough for me.

The removal and installation of those rear interior panels in the Espada is no fun task.
The rear window shocks and hatch latches make for a delightful task LOL .

May your experiences be much better than mine but these cars are 40+ years old now.

 

Well, in fact during installation my thought was also to replace the hose by metal tube. The factory solution was simply the most cost-effective and obviously no-one in the factory considered that their products might overlast more than 10 years anyway .I put in the new rubber hose now mainly just because it was Sunday (and I had the correct hose lying around, which was actually intended to go into the Jarama) and in order to be able to run the car without danger for the time being. I am quite sure that I will take this approach as soon as I will completely renovate the interior (within the next few years). Until then my passengers and I will have to accept the hopefully only slight smell from the (drying out) present trim parts.

Yes, wife compatibility is always an issue . Yesterday evening, even after an extensive bath, I was refused to the bedroom with the argument that I nevertheless still smell inapropriately for close female contact . Women rarely appreciate apropriate male perfumes comprising the smell of gas, burnt oil or smoking rubber .

Bending of metal pipes should be not a real problem, except maybe under the rear seat, where you have somewhat sharp 90 ° angles. It would appear to make some sense to divide the path into sections, which are connected using appropriate compression connectors (metal rings, not rubber).

It might also be worth further considering the material. While aluminum appears to be a good choice with respect to handling and bending, at least in Europe the up to 10% of ethanol (and even some methanol) in gas is quite a risk for ordinary aluminum alloys, since these alcohols corrode simple aluminum alloys more or less easily.

When writing this a thought comes up to me, that the best option might be to use stainless steel wavetube known rather from vacuum technologies, if you want to place it along the same route as the rubber hose. This stuff is quite flexible, not so expensive as you might think (DN16 is around 50,-- per meter) and will for quite sure overlast the rest of the car. One would have to find out whether significantly smaller diameters are obtainable. The main cost issue will probably be to have fittings arc-welded to the ends.

On the other hand, I neither see any reason, why not to fit a standard metal pipe unter the floor of the car (except maybe the resulting "non-original" underneath view)

 

Ah, when talking about leaking gas, another issue I am wondering about since some time (and this is relevant for both, Espada and Jarama) is the main plus pole cable running from the rear battery through body cavities to the front in the Jarama at least (I did not yet look in the Espada, where along it goes there). How good will the insulation be after 40+ years? What would battery arc welding do upon failure thereof (leaking gas line or not)?

Great if some guy decided to fit a main switch in the dash (Espada, looks awful!). Somewhat useless, however, if it switches the plus pole and not ground .... I am looking for a remote control (wireless or not) mains switch in order to locate it directly at the battery switching the ground lead. Anyone a source for something like that? It should take 250 amps at least.

 

My Espada came with a main disconnect switch in the engine compartment right at that main connection terminal. But ... that won't save it from a major meltdown due to failed insulation of the main cable somewhere from there to the rear.

Now you've give me something else to prevent sleep until I can get to it!

It's been a bad month here too. Mostly snow and Ice bound for two months. Lost both rims and tires on Jag due to pot hole damage and had kitchen fire in stove & microwave. Then two weeks of flu. Last year hot water heater broke and took out the first floor which meant moving out for a while and six months of constrution.

Luck running not so good ...

This tune has been getting a lot of play lately in this house ...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKY8KIt9kqc]Albert King - 1981 - Born Under A Bad Sign - YouTube[/ame]

Albert King is great!

 

well Bob it would appear spring is close and this or course means more driving and less worry !
Chin up friend . I will wish good things your way.

Gary
Espada
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