The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Yes - I know he RE-published it, making note of the fact that they are there. It is Ferrari that publishes their website, not Jim. That publication being either public or only being offered to a limited audience does not change this fact.

I may not have quite the post count in this thread that you do, but I have been reading along since almost the beginning, have studied every post and attachment included within, and am very aware of all that has been presented from both sides.

I also know the view from the bottom of your hole can't be great, but keep digging...

>8^)
ER

 

Wrong again.

I'd love to stay and chat. However, things to do and people to see.

 

You don't need to check out. No one will miss you.

>8^)
ER

 

My guess is that Jim G., has enough of a sense of humor, that he knows I'm making fun of you.

AND, he's publishing it as another piece of evidence that Ferrari accepts the car as real, CAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU DEMAND PROOF!!! Not to show it off. Don't YOU, the one who called him "insecure and classless" UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE?????

My guess is you don't care enough about what 0846 really is, to test your own theory, that people can do whatever they want on the website.

My guess is you're just going through all of these motions to serve a vendetta On Jim G.

My guess is you wont do the work, cause deep down inside it may reveal the truth.

If you wont come up with the proof, I don't know how you expect anyone else to want to give you proof either.

In other words, I wouldn't sit around waiting for Napolis to care enough to prove to you, and you only, If his car is 0846.

And you're saying that people can do whatever they want and represent anything they want on the owner site. I'm saying that if you don't own the genuine car you can't.

So not a silly question.

What's silly is you saying that Jim can, but wont answer if the others are able to do the same.

Cause in reality If Jim's car is just another Piper Continuation versus 0846 then Piper should be able to do the same thing. And if Jim can publish whatever he wants then the owner of 0858 can do the same and say his car is a P4.

So not so silly, really it's simple logic. But I can see where you might have a hard time with that.

So once again lets kill three birds with one stone.

If in FACT people can just publish whatever they want on the owners site, whether their car is the real deal or not.....

Can Piper list 0900 if he wanted to?

Would 0858 show up as a P4?

It's the same thing you are accusing Jim of doing... So... CAN THEY?

You should think about politics instead of sales due to you are highly skilled at deflecting answers that don't fit your agenda.

 

Go talk to your puppeteers so you can relay their information back to us.

FUNNY! that you want people to answer your questions but you wont answer ours.

Good luck in your quest.

 

Due diligence, in writing:

As Jim has said: "None of this is new."

>8^)
ER

 

Guys, I think we're dealing with someone with waaaaay too much time on his hands. If this guy really is serious, and is actually looking for a job as a "Ferrari Salesperson", I would guess that he has effectively elliminated this opportunity about twenty pages back. God knows I'd never, ever buy anything from someone with such an unproffessional method of handling disagreements. Let's get this topic back on a more grown up course.
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This debacle has to be all about #0858. The restoration that was so bad that the new owner has scrapped it and started again on a re-body ... end of story

Let's move on as the new owner of #0858 has
Pete

 

Sad to see what such a great thread has devolved to.

 

True. When 0858 was at the Factory to be inspected and auctioned Ferrari clearly published the fact that 0858 was a 350 Can AM and not a P4 and clearly stated that even if fitted with a P4 body would not be certified by them as a P4. This information was a clear condition of 350 Can Am's offering of sale at that auction at The Ferrari Factory.

Over the years Ferrari has inspected 0846 several times and written many things about it including.

"We thank you for your patience and would like to underline that these are not standard procedures. Being yours a unique car, we need to work in a very scrupulous way."

"We would kindly ask you to provide us with some digital pictures of the car, if possible, so to forward them to the competent department for classical cars."

They did work in a very scrupulous way and after stating in writing what they still wanted in order to make a decision regarding whether or not to publish information and photos of 0846, in their sole discretion, on a Ferrari S.p.A website that very clearly bears Ferrari S.p.A's copyright, receiving what they asked for, confirming what specific department at The Ferrari Factory would look at what they asked for, "the competent department for classical cars" in addition to the information Ferrari acknowledged already receiving, and several meeting at the Factory where these and other asked for photos of the chassis were shown to them, including photos of the wheelbase modification from P3 wheelbase of 2412mm to P4 wheelbase of 2400mm confirmed by Ferrari Factory records, dual sets of engine mounts P3 and P4 confirmed by Ferrari Factory Records, modification of water and oil lines to accept a P4 engine after having been fitted with a P3 engine confirmed by Ferrari Factory Records and repair of known damage to 0846's original chassis confirmed by Ferrari Factory Records Ferrari S.p.A confirmed by clearly publishing in their sole discretion that the car I that I have owned since July 2000 was constructed in 1966 and was in fact "unique". There is only one "unique" P 3/4 chassis and as Ferrari clearly published it was constructed in 1966 and as Ferrari clearly Published 12 years ago and continues to publish today that is 0846.

" Does Ferrari sanction/vet information posted on the owner's section of their web site before Ferrari actually publish/post it? If as I now suspect that is the case, I have previously been misinformed by being told that the information posted there is posted without sanction by the owners, and therefore I have decided the following: If Ferrari have vetted and agree the information submitted by the owner, and it is Ferrari who have posted/published on their own web site that Jim Glickenhaus is the owner of 0846, then who am I to argue with Ferrari?"

Steve wrote that months ago.
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True.

Hopefully it will get back to knowledge about the car and its history.

There is really no point to the at least the least twenty pages and if we're lucky the mods will spare the world and delete those.

 

Agreed.

The best thing to do is ignore this annoyance and move on.

Hope you all have a great weekend!!

 

My father, on the left, and 0846.
Daytona 1967
Copyright JAG
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Very cool picture!

 

These photos taken with film cameras are amazing.

 

https://plus.google.com/photos/117085257428647367849/albums/5375382424013933041?banner=pwa
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Great photos Francis.

 

Phenomenal picture!

 

What is said here regarding who has more experience and class is certainly true for David Piper. Most of those including myself have never driven,touched or had any hands on experience with these machines.J G is the exception but let's remember who gave him his start with 0846. The new owner of 0858 has yet to be heard from. It appears that he has made corrections to the appeared problem areas of the Talacrest resto which would indicate he is heading in the right direction. Let's hope he continues. tongascrew

 

Very positive news, though in a light hearted way I can be think of those many posts of yours about the hoped for superb standard of the restoration...sometimes its true to say what we hope for doesn't always turn out the way we had hoped it would.

 

Why were there so many obvious problems when they had a P4 expert in Piper overseeing the project?

Also, its pretty clear DP thought he was selling JG a Piper P4 and not the remains of an actual P3/4 too. An accidental start at best, hence the reported purchase price.

You were very clear in your opinion that judgement of Talacrest's restoration should be reserved until completed. The industrial sized bin most of it has been dumped in by the new owner says it all for their 'restoration'.

 

Le Mans 1967.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng1558DUz6s#t=647

 

From what I gather, Ferrari states that 0846 was binned. Ferrari also states that the chassis should never have been removed from the bin. As far as Ferrari is concerned 0846 has been destroyed.

On the other hand.

Ferrari seems to agree that bits and peices of Jim's car contains bits and peices of 0846. Which is fine. IMHO, Jim's car is a recreation containing bits and peices of 0846. Where I think the issue lies, is the fact that Jim's car is being referred to 0846 as if it's a complete and original car, which it is not. There is only one complete and original P4 and it's owned by Mr stroll here in canada.

Jim owns a chassis number. Not the complete original car. Ferrari is correct. He does indeed own chassis number 0846. That little 2 inch stamping number is worth a ton of money. The rest of the car..well that is debatable. IMHO.

 

Great film that, was there ever a more dangerous way to start a motor race?
Great to see the Chaparral also, love them since seeing them at Goodwood years ago.

 

What parts aren't original to 0846 other then 0858's body?

At least in race car terms.

As we all know, none of these race cars have ended up with the parts that they were built with the day they left the factory.

I'd have to think it would be a stretch to say that parts weren't swapped from car to car, including Strolls, in the heat of battle. If the logic is that bits and pieces from other cars make up a recreation then by this, would you consider Stroll's 0856 to be a recreation?

If it's not the various parts but the body that makes the difference, then by this logic, one would also have to say that 0858, although I believe it to be a Can Am, is at best a recreation also?

And if those two are recreations, due to the body, wouldn't every car that has ever received a re-body be considered a recreation also?

Or do you consider it to be a recreation cause the frame was suppose to be scrapped. Even though it wasn't?

People say the serial number is what matters, others think you need more.

Just curious why you would consider this a recreation when by honest standards, all of these old race cars are hodge-podges of whatever part was within arms reach at the given time?