The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

From the Tale of #0846 at Le Mans thread to keep all debate in this one:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/19289-tale-0846-lemans-2.html

It's part of Jim's evidence to his claim, and in its identification that 0846 is the chassis that he has that the RHS tubes of that chassis have been replaced due to the fire damage at Le Mans. Your comments cast doubt on that evidence.

 

8th same ol' post.

One flogs a dead horse to see if it's alive.

NewsFlash:

IT'S ALIVE!

Film at 11


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Somebody PLEASE say something new!

 

How about a new picture?
0846 Daytona 1967
Copyright JAG
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And another;
Chris Amon with 0846
Daytona 1967
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Last one;
Amon and Bandini together with 0846
Copyright JAG
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Thanks.

 

Fantastic!!

 

Fantastic color images. More here from the Dave Friedman collection:
1967 Daytona 24 Hour - a set on Flickr
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jcosta 79 obviously is neophyte on the subject.First of all Ferrari chassis are referred to by their serial number [sn] not a VIN. Secondly if this person was at all familiar with Ferrari provenance he would know that S.F. has played free and easy with s/n changes since the early 1950s.Doing it again should come as no surprise. When I started with F Chat in 2005/6 I looked to learn from those contributing not to insult them. tongascrew

 

So you're telling me that an Enzo does not have a VIN? Is that what you're telling me?

And the fact that Ferrari has been swapping out S/N's for years is exactly the point I was trying to make! Do people not consider those cars real Ferraris anymore? What Jim did was not even close to a full S/N swap to a new chassis so it should be considered a true Ferrari even MORE SO than what the factory themselves have done to certain cars in the past.

Not sure what points you were trying to make here.

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Tonga

Once again what you post is not true. 0846's chassis number is it's VIN # and has been since it's year of construction of 1966. When I imported 0846 into Italy for the Historic Targa Florio Italian Custom authorities told me 0846 was still in their records under it's original Prova # that was painted on the car. When Pininfarina hosted 0846 and later exported it for me back to the US it clearly used 0846 as it's VIN #. Chassis numbers being VIN numbers are true for every Ferrari ever made whether or not they were ever road registered.

 

Thanks Jim, I didn't think I was crazy.

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In all fairness I mentioned dead mobsters coming back to life.

Please find where this has been said before?

Hopefully at some point this thread will do the same.

Thanks for your opinion!

The opinion of many others here is quite the opposite.

That's what is great about opinions though. One man doesn't decide what something is, public opinion does.

The mint may intend to destroy mis-marked currency but that is not always the case.

Sometimes that mis-marked currency slips through their hands and out into the real world.

They may not like it, but there is nothing they can do about it once it does, the public see's it for what it is, authentic currency that the government tried to destroy but fumbled the attempt, and the market acts accordingly.

Ironically this inferior currency is valued more then the real currency due to it's defects and the story behind it.

Glad to see that you are still learning from them.

Sorry to see that you are now insulting them.

 

Zombies are not a net gain in any context

 

Either are people that hope for the destruction of a car rather then it's survival.

 

I'm on cold meds and will pass on expressing an opinion.

 

Will seek out similar meds.

 

My God this thread has turned to *****, unsubscribing until the children mature.

The most interesting posts are what I found in the old Ferraichat site:
1. Marcel saw chassis #0846 back in the 1970's in Piper's ownership
2. Piper was running one of his supposed continuation P4 cars with a P3 engine, witnessed by Paul Mackness

Doesn't take a genius to put two and two together
Pete

 

Macca did, and Many Years ago Nathan interviewed David and posted a photo that David gave him and a statement that David made that proved beyond the shadow of any reasonable doubt that David did not understand how Ferrari fitted a P4 engine into a P3 chassis and that I had not "counterfeited" the unique P 3/4 Chassis that was in 0846 at the time. As David clearly didn't understand how Ferrari did it when interviewed by Nathan and still didn't understand it when I personally asked him again about this at the Ferrari Factory I very much doubt he personally counterfeited it either.

Hard Cheese that was for Nathan.

Once again nothing new.

 

I don't think there's anybody hoping for the destruction of the car, just the truth of what happened to it. I will use some of Umberto Masoni's words of Ferrari Classiche from his communication to Jim dated September 29th, 2004 where the true meaning of those words, and not their misinterpretation can answer your dig at those whose quest is for the truth and nothing but the truth.

"We all would like to see forever these glorious pieces but unfortunately the chassis no. 0846 had a sad conclusion."

 

To paraphrase the Moderators: "Crow,....it's what's for breakfast!"

 

Question: Exactly what part of 0846's chassis was said to be damaged at the Targa Florio in 1967? What part of the chassis from Jim's 0846 pdf is pictured? I would appreciate very much the answer and thanks in advance for any replies.
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Unfortunate that he came to the wrong conclusion about its sad conclusion, as it clearly was not.

If you hoped for preservation rather then destruction you would hopefully search out the truth versus serve a Vendetta. Still have yet to see one argument from you on any concrete facts as to how this is not 0846, all that matters to you is some letter that doesn't prove the provenance that the metal does.

Maybe a sad conclusion for the efforts of Ferrari whose goal was to eliminate it but didn't. But not sad at all for those of us who would like to see as many of these cars survive as is possible.

It is quite clear from your views on the 0858 thread and this one which side you sit on. As you would rather see cars that actually survived be dismantled or discredited instead of trying to look at the real facts of what survived versus what did not. Your views are not to help keep history going but to dismantle history to serve your idols.

Facts are facts. It sits and breathes and lives today.

Not sure if this has been covered before but are there any in period close up shots of the welds on P3/4? Or in-period shots of the repairs?

Surely it is borderline impossible to duplicate every detail of a weld and thus they serve as a sort of fingerprint.

Is their anybody alive that can search to find a possible previously unearthed photo?