The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

I have not yet seen any evidence from somebody who is actually qualified to say exactly what the frame on Jim's car is or was.

 

So you have zero opinion of your own how the frame came to be?

Are you just waiting for people to tell you what things are?

Another question.

Do you consider 0858 to be a P3, a 350 Can Am, a P4, or a P3/4 as it sits now?

 

No one in authority at Ferrari cares to comment.

Please read the post above on Jim's legal notice to Ferrari.

It was met with silence then.
Your request now will also be met with total silence.

Stop and think a moment as to why that would be their position??

I think you would have to be the actual owner of the car, to engage Ferrari for that type of affirmation.
That is what the current Classiche is all about (as well as a profit center).

But it's totally voluntary and you cannot force Mr. G.to send his car to Classiche, any more than you can one of mine.
We are satisfied with the current documentation.

In the P3/4's case you can see his legal efforts to confirm his personal use, of the historic VIN identification.
In my case, the plates are still firmly attached..

 

You have no axe to grind? :0)

At least there are spots of humour to be found as this thread goes from genuinely interesting to tiresome.

 

+846.

At first, I thought he might have had some new information, or at least an interesting insight.

Now, not so much. Especially as he refuses to start at the beginning of the inquiry, as posted right here for all to see.

 

Yep. It's like watching a porno with no image or sound.

 

Yes, but it's Jim who has stated that Ferrari have made the affirmation in writing.

It may have been the case that Jim's winning the case to use the number 0846 on a legal technicality by estoppel has taken advantage of Ferrari's unwillingness to comment. This has helped nobody to actually identify and prove Jim's car is the original 0846.

 

Please re-direct all *****ing, whining, trolling, slander, loaded questions here:

Ferrari SpA, headquarters and factory:
Via Abetone Inferiore n. 4,
I-41053 Maranello (MO)
Italy
Phone: +39 0536 949111

Dead horse well and truly flogged.

 

And again, the publication to their website is satisfactory evidence of this for the large majority of those who might bother to care. Failing to recognize this as some level of proof on Ferrari's stance on the matter is ignorant.

>8^)
ER

 

Seriously...the rest of us should meet at Chinetti's for a look at it.

 

Post 7074: Car and chassis number are given up by Ferrari as the car’s creator and holder of all rights. Opinion? According to Ferrari “eventual pieces” … “should not have been used to rebuild or to revival a car”. Opinion? DP later used some of the “definitively scrapped” remains to build a new car with a new chassis number and a new identity. Opinion? The result is a fantastic car indeed and a real thing but not Ferrari’s #0846 and no Italian and/or American custom declaration etc is able to change these facts.

 

Again, the Ferrari owners web site information "My Garage, Your Garage" is not a "publication" and is intended for Jim's personal entertainment only. It's pass word protected and only he can see it. Jim is its only intended viewee. Ferrari do not warrant the accuracy of that information and it requires the express permission of Ferrari S.p.A for anyone to copy or publish it. Ferrari have not published it. Jim has. Read the terms and condition of use of the Ferrari web site.

 

This is your assumption, arrived upon because you think it somehow strengthens your argument. Instead, it does the opposite.

Here's a test - sign up for the Ferrari Owner's website and get them to add a few cars to your personal garage. Please report back on just how much entertainment they provide you with.

>8^)
ER

 

Once again. Please answer. Don't think you have the right to get answers from people if you yourself don't have the courtesy to answer.

Also waiting on your reasons to believe that this car may not be what Jim states?

 

Exactly. I have said this many times but he has just deflected it. As he does with questions that would prove his point to hold no water.

Once again. Could David Piper Register 0900 on the Ferrari owners site if he wanted to?

If so could he register it as 0846 if he wanted to?

Don't hold your breath cause Miura wont answer.

 

The factory Owners Site actually goes to great effort to confirm your build date, original interior and exterior color selections, and so forth.

Not sure where you got the idea it's not "warranted or intended for public use" as it is the basis of many careful restorations, in my case.

At the least, I use it to select rattle can paint...

 

Camon guys, i think we all agree this as gone too far....now that i think of it, the only sensible explanation for what´s been going on around here is that Miura is acting in acordance to Jim in order to keep this thread going!!!

 

0858 has nothing to do with the debate here. I've already answered the other question.

 

Or it might be the case that he won based on fact and Ferrari or anyone else had sufficient evidence to prove he was wrong.

One guy may say one thing, another may say something different. In the ends the courts decide.

Here's a little scene to Illustrate my point.

INT. COURT - DAY

A man sweats as people stare in his direction.

MAN
He isn't my kid. It's the Mailman's kid.

JUDGE
The evidence presented to the court clearly
shows that he is, Judgement Plaintiff.

 

Yes it does.

Answer the question.

Don't expect others to extend the COURTESY if you are unwilling to do it yourself.

Please also refresh my memory on the answer to where you think the 0846 frame came from.

Like you I'd rather not read through this whole thread looking for a needle.

 

Ferrari of Houston is looking for a Service Writer....

 

Jim my issue was with "jcosta 79" not you.Any how to quote you "Once again what your post is not true."The use of the VIN is an American term.If you translated the term "vehicle identification number" into Italian it would mean little to an Italian. And VIN or sn numbers have nothing to do with Prova numbers which are an official Italian government issued number which we would say is applied to an "off road" vehicle for temporary road use. Now regarding the sn number on 0846 we know that the chassis parts Piper got from E.F. had no visible sn on any of the chassis tubes. Thus we can assume that this was the reason Piper was not sure what the correct sn was for the car he sold you and was rightly not about to claim anything that was possibly not correct.Some say this was ignorance on the part of Piper Now you get full credit for all your efforts to correctly identify your car's chassis as being 0846 even though there were numerous other parts that were probably not original to 0846.S.F. has basically agreed with you but left the door slightly agar with their terminology of how the car was disposed of. Though the details of the deal made between Piper and E.F. are publicly undocumented the fact is that S.F. never again used the 0846 sn on another chassis. This was of course not always adhered to at S.F. I assume when you take 0846 out on the open road a dealer or repair plate is on the car as I doubt there are build documents that would get the car registered in the United States. Finally as my posts are "wrong again" should I retract the complimentary things I have said about you previously. Say all you want but will not do that. Our differences are about the 0858 restoration and some of your comments about your mentor David Piper. Regards tongascrew

 

Go to the Facebook post and go down to the"How to tackle the Nurburgring" video. Ride along and listen to the dialogue. This is one of the great tracks that ever existed. The driver has a good command of the issue and is trucking right long. Then along comes a yellow Porsche and goes by him as if he is standing still. WOW. This is a ride worth taking.Play it over several times and imagine what it might be like at full chat racing. tongascrew

 

I understand there is video footage that exists of 0846 burning at Le Mans 1967. Does anyone have it to post in this thread or is able to direct us to anywhere it may be able to be seen on line?

 

Very good point. Now if JG had found an original sn chassis plate on the frame of the car from DP he would have realized fairly quickly that what he had was basically a modified P3 car which was not the same as the P4 blueprints in front of him. It would appear Piper also hadn't made the connection and had rebuilt a wrecked frame with a vast collection of parts he had from S.F. which seemed to fit. As Piper was more of a rebuilder at the time rather than a restorer he was less concerned about blue prints and historical accuracy. He already had several years intense experience with the P cars which of course was one of the reasons E.F. entrusted him with what he, E.F., wanted no more part of. Some have faulted Piper for not knowing what this frame was he got from Ferrari but, not being an historian and probably realizing that the plans he had were not accurate for the task at hand proceed as best he could.J.G. being more the historian and restorer was more interested in the accuracy of what was in front of him and I am sure right from the beginning wanted to find out exactly what he had. A good for him. tongascrew