Alfa 4C - "Without The Heart We Would Be Mere Machines"

Mostly real and structural means on a Zonda for example there may be some cosmetic CF in the inertior but if you see CF on the extrerior that panel is aculay CF always was CF and servs a purpose beyond cosmetic in being CF. Now maybe an anorak can point our some external piece on Zonda that is cosmetic CF, I imagine they must be some, but cosmetic Cf is not the dominat expression of this car, nor is it ona regular 4C.

Let me put it plainly, so you can maybe understand what I am saying from your orbit. The 4C is a legitimate sportscar, it does not have to do mundo fake stuff to be appealing, it can stand on its own. The extrerior CF on the 4c is in my opinion overdone, like gold trim on a lamborghini..

I get that some people with aluminum ferraris buy super expensive CF bits like doorhandles, airboxes etc becuse they like the look or think it coveys something of wealth, its the reason ,most people today buy ferraris to start with. Ferrari is degenrating into a poseur brand of note, amd I am not alone in this pinion on this forum or elsewhere. But its just my opnion here, as you have yours.

The 4c was or is refershing because of what it is not, its not overweight, or overdone. To My eyes the CF windsheild surround is a step too far and overdone, like a plastic surgery second wife in a gucci basball cap. If it were actual structural CF it would still be overdone, the vette with a CF hood does not have it in CF finish, where a vette shows CF like the liftout panel its not overdone, its nice and in balance and really is structural CF, there is much more CF on the vette that is not exposed to show off.

But yeah I get some people like overdone, some people like hey look at me, some people love fake breasts, I like the real thing as it is, you know a bit of balance and substance that does not have to shout itself out.. there is a reason why a lp400 is worth more than a later QV with wing.

The 4c was an honest car there are very few of those left, just look at what the 911 has become in the 991, to me the overdone cosmetic CF is a step in the wrong direction and visualy challeged as applied to the 4c spyder, it will also date what may be a timelss car.

maybe we buy cars for different reasons, I like to drive on weekends, go to the track and I pretty much keep what I buy, badge means little to nothing for me.. Others buy to cruise to a capuchino bar, some live where you can drive fast on the road and max out a fast car, some always want the latest etc, I am expressing a asthetic opinion of the spyder or elements of it...

 

Rather harsh comparo of the 4C and Exige:
Alfa Romeo 4C vs Lotus Exige - PistonHeads

I appreciate the reference to the Smart Roadster's blow-off valve noise, something I enjoyed while driving them around Germany and the 'Ring.

As suspected, the huge and wide wheels/thin sidewalled tires look cool but does the 4C's handling balance and overall driving enjoyment no favors.

 

So, they get a 4C with the race setup and the big wheels and then fault it for behaving like it has a race setup and big wheels. Okay then.

The motor comparison seemed more fair, though.

Cheers,

George

 

alfa is nice, no doubt. and I hope the usa version isn't saddled by regulations to be over 2500 lbs (it will). but regardless, as I have been saying from the start, its not that big an upgrade (if at all) over a lotus

 

Mmmm, I think you are looking at it from a very biased, perhaps distorted personal view.

Personally-speaking, I don't go for CF but I think the exterior CF cladding on the 4C Spider works and is intended to provide the car with durable lightweight matt black accents without resorting to cheap-looking, difficult-to-maintain plastic or cheap paint jobs. And at any rate, the 4C does incorporate a lot of structural CF so it's thematically justifiable.

I think the main reason is to avoid the use of cheap-looking material, not to add fake stuff.

 

And, of course, if you don't like the CF, you can get the coupe instead of the spider. I've decided on the coupe for another reason: You can't take the optional hard top with you. Since I like to adventure with my rides, that's a serious liability for me.

Cheers,

George

 

People aren't perfect.

Alfa's aren't perfect.

Porsche's are perfect but so are robots.

That's why we like Alfa's.

 

Interesting comparo test. Exige v 4C

Alfa Romeo 4C vs Lotus Exige - PistonHeads

 

Great article


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Topgear puts the 4C head to head with the Cayman and Exige:
Alfa Romeo 4C takes on the rivals - BBC Top Gear

Baggianate!

I'll take one of those "perfect" cars please and merrily hoon the **** out of it while 4C owners gaze dreamily at it in the garage while secretly hating to drive it.

"We", that is true gearheads, like Alfas because they look cool, sound lusty, drive pretty well-to-very well, and are affordable. Right now the 4C hits 1.5 out of 4.

Alfa 8Cs, Tipo 33s, 33 Stradales and various F1 efforts are awesome if fading into ancient history, the Montreal (and arguably the 8C) is an intriguing exercise but it's the Suds, GTV6s, Guillietas, 155s and ('66-'93) Spiders that really define the brand and still feed Alfa's cult-like following.

If the 4C was $40k, or had a brilliant motor and sublime handling for $60k+ it's be an unqualified hit. Yeah yeah, no way to do a carbon chassis for $40k.... then eff the carbon chassis. The Elise does just fine with an archaic aluminum one and still somehow doesn't need to raid the corporate parts bin for it's suspension.

I'm still holding out hope that Alfa can inject some Italian magic into their version of next Miata, without adding too many "imperfections" or $$ to the bottom line.

The 4C just shows that Alfas have marketing wonks and engineers that whack off to carbon-fiber, for no reason except that they can.

 

This should possibly be in the British section. I'll try to remain relevant to an Alfa thread.
Full disclosure, I'm an Alfisto forever, having owned a concours 101 Giulietta sprint, used as a DD. Always Looking For Another, of course.

A CF tub vs. an aluminum tub is a false comparison, in that, big picture any difference is negligible. Lotus cars are the best handling of all (I tracked an S1 190 Motorsport Elise with a Rover K-series race motor). I've had massively tuned 911 track cars, 308s, etc. The Lotus was on a completely different level. Easy fast, easily the best chassis I've experienced.

I was so stoked when the 4C was introduced, gradually less-so when prices became apparent, more less-so when reviews gave us a dose of reality. Big bummer, after decades of waiting for The Return.

I recently nearly bought a beautiful NA Exige, wanting to recapture the magic of my old racecar. I passed for economic reasons, bought a 308 instead.

I guess if you want to cruise around in your new Alfa, the 4C is the way to go.

However, Exige is for us purists.

Ciao Bella---

M

 

Agreed, seeing it get trounced by the cayman in the latest reviews was a wake up call. Then again, pretty much everything in same class of the cayman/boxster does. Look forward to the day something can beat out the porche.

I do love the look of the 4C though, beautiful design.

 

I'm going with the Israeli guy who said the 4C is the only car he's cared about in 25 years, since he actually owns one.

Cheers,

George

 

+ 1000

I am really amazed about how so many people are making up their mind about a car by reading some reviews....and only a few reviews.

Nobody "wants" to mention that the 4C has a carbon fibre tub although everyone is so excited and goes on and on about the fact that McLaren has it and the 458 doesn't.

To each his own but I have always reviewed cars myself and I only buy a car that I like....not journalists. imho they are there purely for entertainment value and nothing more.

Cheers

 

Except here the journalists are talking performance and driving dynamics, there have been fairly consistent reports, just as we have consistent reports ont he cyaman and Lotus.

The CF chassis is uber cool, but if the rest is not yet up to it, its just a bragging cool.

I ma sure its cool to own and rive, and in Israel would be an uber exotic.

What w ehave constsently heard is some weirdness in the steering on straight ahead, and a less than inspirational motor. The motor part is not asurprise as aluminum block aside its and economy car motor.

What the Alfa needs is not excuses but sorting. A turbo motor can have the wick seriusly turned up, and the Chassis unless seriously hpbb;ed by struts can be sorted too.

IMO this carw ill become great, either throught he aftermarket or Alfa. The 348 was not great when released, the later versions were though, and the 355 was sublime. Allt he same essential chassis and motor.

Lets see what Alfa does with it.

BTW the 8c also looked great but according to the press was not great driver.

What we are lookign for is sublime handling and a motor that loves to be used. I think the pieces are thetre, it just needs cooking.

As an elsie owner I would love the Alfa to be the next step,

As an aside, I think in time to come we will se a resurgence of the mnaual. In fact B<W is 40% M3 manuals as is dodge challenger and the vette not too far behind, same with proche. Manualy are not some fringe 5% takeup on sports cars, except ferrari, which probaly says more about new ferrari owners than anyhting else.

In time marketers will realsie its part of the sports car formula, esp as performance thes days from a sedan is so good, you need differntiators thta speak to the tactile which sedans cant offer..

 

Its interesting that you remark about the negative comments in the British press. I just watched (again) the first episode on Top Gear last night where Richard Hammond drives the 4C in northern Italy, and there were no negatives comments about the power, nor the steering, in fact he raved about it. The only negative comments were about the fact that the car has the no trunk (boot), its bolted shut to save weight, and that some of the plastic switchgear from FIAT bins look cheap inside the car. Considering the fact that the 4C has an amazing carbon fibre chassis, those two points are perfectly acceptable.

Auto Express tested the 4C against the Porsche Cayman and it had the identical time around a track. Other testers openly admit that these 2 cars in fact should not even be compared, and in fact that the 4C is like a poor man's McLaren at a quarter the price.

I do agree with you that the car will get better though, just as the 2nd generation Cayman is much better than the original.

 

Is there a link to the full topgear comparo?

 

No I just bought the season pass through iTunes so I get all the episodes on my Mac

 

i saw the episode where hammond 'races' the alfa vs clarkson on a boat. im talking about the mag test of 4c vs new exige vs cayman

 

I agree with Deppi0, these road tests are all subjective and I will reserve judgement until I drive one myself. I have also read the various road tests and they are mixed, no one is saying that its as good dynamically as the Cayman S, but they are all positive about it as an introduction. Definitely its the best looking new design and I feel puts the Cayman to shame in that department.

 

Here we go: Alfa Romeo 4C takes on the rivals - BBC Top Gear

By the way....I am not defending the 4C and never said it is better than the Cayman but luckily not everyone wants the "better" car. Tastes are subjective and some people will prefer a "perfect" german mid-engined car (but a little soulless maybe) and others will prefer a slightly flawed but very exciting Italian ;-)

PS I can't consider Lotus being a real rival especially if you look at how badly they have been selling for the past few years. They are imho the car that drivers would love to buy but never do....

 

Chris Harris had the same things to say about the steering, and the motor is what it is.
I guess it depends where you come from. If you are comming from a porche then the Alfa is more raw and viceral. If you are comming from a lotus then its a step down performance wise.

In time maybe the Alfa will have better resoved steering and power. Or maybe the article is right to question whether the Alfa is crippled by its strut setup.

If you wanta car to cruise around, then the 4c looks stunning and is somewhat easy to live with being a paddle car.

Lets see how the perform at DE days.

As to the Cf tub and weight. My Elise weighs 1925 lbs with 1/2 a tank of gas. The weight of the 4c is an open questuion as Alfa quotes dry weights which are as relevant as thin air. My guess is a Euro 4c wet weight must be somewhere around 2200lbs and a full boat Us spec sounds more like 2400lbs. Very light compared to others, but its going to need 350hp to really be a compelling player at trackdays. I am waiting till the 350hp version with sorted steering comes out.

The goos news is that between the potential of cars liek the 4c and new z06 you seriously have to question why buy ferrari, at least froma drivers perpective.

 

You love to keep pushing that you are a "real" driver so you like Lotus, manual cars, etc...and that most of us are a bunch of posers ;-)

I don't care too much about lap times as although I track my cars 10-15 times a year I am not good enough to care so much......but in every single lap time comparison done, the 4C has beating the Cayman and the Lotus.

Chassis wise though nothing beats a Lotus

 

As you mentioned earlier, sports car purchases are not objective and logical for most. As much as I admire the Cayman and Exige, they just don't do it for me. Very similar to taste in women: I admire the objective beauty of many tall and graceful models, but they don't turn me on. I like short and cute redheads.

Cheers,

George

 

I hear that and it's still very early to make full judgement. But, out of the gate, it's not looking as good as I had hoped.

Looking forward to reading more owners reviews when its been out for a while.

Time will tell

Agreed and I think most, including the reviewers want it to take the cake, which is also a bit concerning, knowing they are going in with bias. But after the review, coming out with a more objective analysis.