The Michael Schumacher Career/Injury/Recovery Thread

A rare '+1000' from me too.

That the question was posed by a lawyer, someone who should know better IMHO, I find even more alarming.....

Godspeed Michael,
Ian

 

Thanks, needed a little chuckle right about now!

Ian

 

From his comments :

First, let’s make clear what I am and am not saying/doing.

I am relaying information that has been brought to my attention by someone in a position to know. I am not criticising any specific physicians/nurses//paramedics. Pre-hospital medicine is difficult at best, under difficult conditions, and requires rigorous technique, deep and broad knowledge of patient types as well as of the ****ed-up things that can happen to patients, and the ability to improvise when necessary. I’m also not expressing MY opinion on how head-injured patients should be treated. I am simply relaying the most basic, consensual principles of the initial approach to these patients, as enumerated in courses such as PHTLS and ATLS (both trademarks, but I don’t have the little “R” thingie in a circle), and textbook after textbook.

1) HEAD INJURED PATIENTS SHOULD BE TRIAGED TO INITIAL ADMISSION TO A NEUROSURGICAL CENTER. Now I wasn’t there, but it seems logical to me that finding a disoriented and agitated patient on a ski-slope with reliable witnesses saying he fell with his head onto a rock, breaking his helmet, and bleeding from a head wound, probably is suggestive evidence of a head injury, until proven otherwise. How on earth this patient wound up at a non-neurosurgical center is quite beyond my comprehension. It would be understandable if other life threatening injuries needed attention so quickly as to make that more urgent than evaluation and treatment of the potential brain injury, but that was not the case here.

2) COMATOSE HEAD INJURED PATIENTS MUST BE INTUBATED. SEDATION AND INTUBATION OF AGITATED/COMBATIVE HEAD INJURY PATIENTS NEEDS TO BE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED. It is extremely likely that before lapsing into unconsciousness, Michael was agitated and not particularly “in touch” with his care team. He therefore likely received sedatives in order to be scanned, but was not intubated – at Moutiers. Sedating a head injured patient WITHOUT intubating him or her is VERY bad for the injured brain, as it is inevitably associated with rising levels of CO2 (really bad after brain injury), and lessened protection from airway obstruction and inhalation of gastric contents (causes low oxygen, again really bad for the brain). The initial scan was presumably rather . . . dramatic, prompting the helicopter to be called back (!!!) for a transfer to Grenoble.

3) IN HELICOPTER MEDICINE, ANY TECHNICAL ACT THAT STANDS A GOOD CHANCE OF BEING NECESSARY NEEDS TO BE DONE BEFORE FLIGHT. Medevac helicopters are just too small to allow any significant access to a patient during flight. So now the helicopter comes back to pick up Michael. He’s either still agitated (not ideal for the injured brain, not ideal in a helicopter, etc) OR he’s losing consciousness, and therefore his ability to maintain his airway and ventilation (also not really good for an injured brain). Either way, the guy’s gotta be intubated . . . NOW. Not in flight – you can’t intubate in flight. And? Well, they actually have to LAND the helicopter to intubate him, because it wasn’t done prior to takeoff from Moutiers. Not ideal.

A situation like this is a true, dramatic emergency. It’s why there are helicopters and triage protocols and neuro centers. When a head injured patient begins to lose consciousness, the pressure on the brain is increasing. It’s a vicious circle – brain gets squeezed, reducing its blood flow, which makes it swell, which squeezes harder, and so on and so on. EVERY MINUTE COUNTS – literally. I’d estimate that at best an hour was lost like this, probably more. Impossible to say, i repeat, IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY exactly what effect 1-2 h delay can have on a patient like this, but most neurosurgeons will tell you it can’t be good. At all.

Odds and ends | A Former F1 Doc Writes

 

I see... Whether it would have made any difference though.... Nothing better than getting optimum management from the get go hen there would have been no room for these sort of "what if" thoughts.

 

Seriously?? You claim to be a lawyer, but some of your recent posts, wherein you argue that Shumacher's fans have a right to be informed of his medical condition, just confirms my belief that on-line law degrees are not all they're cracked up to be.

 

Ouch!!!!

Man, that will leave a mark.

 

I've not posted much in this thread, but that's WAY the hell out of line here... wow

I hope the mods view this as a "personal attack". I do.

Jedi

 

No. I am trying to find where he draws the line. His statements are so stark and leave no room for error, I just wanted to know if he does recognize that the public has some rights to know about certain people. Since politicians are clearly elected by the people, I though it might be obvious, but I still wanted to see his reaction. I threw in the Jobs thing, because I do believe the Jobs WAS Apple's genius. And shareholders deserve the right to know if his health was dire.

My question was not done with contempt . . . I sincerely wanted to see his thoughts without emotion and without "absolutes."

I realized this . . . but you have left little room for debate in your answers . . . I just wanted to see where you were headed. See my answer to Vizsla (the dog lover) above.^^^

 

I assume "Dog lover" to be a compliment.

 

Get your facts straight. I realize that nuanced arguments are not you forte, so please try to keep up. There are at least two sides to this . . .

Michael's Family: What I have said is that Michael's family is free to keep silent all they want. But since Michael is a public figure (and that is not in dispute) that the family's actions are a two-edge sword. If they keep silent, then they have no right to scream and moan when speculation runs wild. And, absent malice, they will have no cause of action for false reporting about Michael's condition. This can all be mitigated if there were some authorized reports.

The Fans: The fans are perfectly within their right to want news on Michael, and it is to be expected that they will partonize media sources which provide news or even speculation. The fans have no inherent right to compel information from MS or his family, but they can't be blamed for wanting news AND seeking news from sources--even sources which are not credible.

My argument is that it is my opinion that Michael would want to control the information and would be obsessive about shaping the story. Again, please make sure you don't miss the word "opinion" in that last sentence.

By the way . . . my law degree . . . Emory University, which is not Stanford, but it "ain't University of Phoenix, either." I could tell you about my honors, but that wouldn't be fair would it?

Surely a Bon Vivant such as yourself can understand that some people like to discuss many layers of a complex topic and that personal insults such as a "mail order degree" tell us more about the writer than the object of that insult? What . . . you don't understand that. Hmmm . . . I didn't think so.

 

Of course. Since I found out about the Vizsla (you told me about it), I think they are awesome. I am a dog lover myself! My wife is going to get a Rhodesian Ridgeback puppy this weekend.

 

Thanks. I generally don't agree with bans because it lets the poster run and hide. I'd rather let the comments speak for themselves. Smart people, such as you, know the score.

Having said that, I did think it was time for Agent Penguin to be slapped down. LOL.

 

Congrats. A great breed.

 

Hey! Hijack alert!..... Stop wasting my time by going off topic!

Congrats on the new puppy btw, a great breed indeed. (Even if you do need a Costco sized pooper scooper. )

/hijack (for now anyway)

Godspeed Michael
Ian

 

The reason for my comment is that you have claimed in other posts that based on legal precedent Shumacher's fans have a right to be informed of his medical condition. That argument is unavailing. You even used defamation cases, which are totally inapposite, to illustrate your point. And I guess it would be "fair" for you to tell me about your honors, my law degree is from Harvard and I can take it. By the way, Emory is also a very good law school, so I apologize for my comment...it was indeed misplaced.

 

I certainly haven't heard any member of his family (or even his 'entourage' as some are now calling it) doing any 'screaming or moaning' though.

The only whining seems to becoming from fans who seem to think he (and his poor beleaguered family ) somehow owe them something, or the gutter press who want something, anything - Doesn't matter if it's true, from a reliable source, or complete BS, seems they'll publish it.

Godspeed Michael
Ian

 

Wasn't expecting that as the 'comeback' there!

'Careful what you say, you just don't know who you may be talking to here!'.......

I think all our emotions sometimes get the better of us here. I know I've (sincerely) apologized for a few comments along the way. No bans required IMO.

Godspeed Michael
Ian

 

I do not have a law degree in the US or any European country or region.

But I have stayed at several Holiday Inn Express hotels. My opinion is that it is nobody's business outside of Schumi's immediate family.

Best

 

My BIL was an editor on the Law Review at Harvard.
The man can't use a screwdriver.
Don't be impressed.

 

My youngest got a decent computer science degree, and he doesn't even KNOW what a screwdriver is!

Ian

 

Not to bum you out too much but I was a comp sci major.

 

Why should I leave little room for debate? He and his wife and kids are entitled to their privacy on medical matters.

When they are ready to talk, they will.

 

Calm down Corvette kid,Iam not asking for any top secret information,gory details or pics of his brain scans every 5 minutes. And as far as Iam concerened I think his fans(including me) do deserve something more in 3 months than just "we are hoping for a full recovery" dribble. If you dont thats your perogative but dont tell anyone on this thread that its none of their business.....this is a forum to discuss.
Who made you Michaels #1 fan-boy and mouthpiece for the family anyway?

 

OK, I can accept that.

Not the argument I was making.

Someone made the offhand comment that Schumacher is not a public figure. Under the definition of a "public figure" (for purposes of the argument, and referring to the 'actual malice' standard of the NYT v. Sullivan case) Schuey is a public figure. My comments in that regard were about his "status" as a public figure--responding to another poster. Having said that, I never said that the family had a legal obligation to disclose information based on this--it is simply not relevant to the issue of disclosure.

What I said was that I thought it would be wise to provide updates as it gives the press--those guys that the Mayor loves so much--some good raw, red meat to gobble up.

When someone said that Schuey was not a public figure--again debating his status; not the obligation to disclose information--I did cite cases. I even cited an article where a First Amendment professor argued that George Zimmerman was a public figure (for purposes of the actual malice standard) even thought he did not seek the public eye--he was thrust into the public by his circumstances. A 'passive' public figure, if you will.



So, let me set the record straight, and let's please move on. If I were running Schuey's PR, I would provide periodic and scheduled updates, and I'd let a medical professional handle them. I believe it is a wise move. Schuey's family is free to remain silent, but one consequence of silence is that speculation runs wild--and I don't blame the fans for wanting news. I do believe that many in the media love the fact that speculation lets them sell their product and garner eyeballs to their websites. I think that the speculation would be curtailed if there were "sanctioned" updates. (But I admit that this may be naive--many will speculate even with regular updates.)

 

Is this thread to become yet another F1 HATE FEST? REALLY?

Come on guys... tone it down. Have some respect.

Jedi