458 SPECIAL vs 430 SCUD

You might want to ask this again once deliveries have properly started !!

Up to now I think there's only a handful in Europe

 

There is a good few in england already

 

I'm in the same boat but I decided on upgrading to the Speciale. I am sure technically it is a far superior car although it's difficult to test those limits unless you are on a race track. Still not sure what the dealer will give me on a trade but from what I see there are very few Scuds available and pricing has remained pretty high.

 

ask big block he is currently driving his in germany

 

Hi!

I currently own a Scud and my Speciale arrived today. I haven't driven MY Speciale yet, but did drive Ferrari's on it's test track at Fiorano in November 2013 + a good hour in the hills near Maranello. I drove to Maranello with my Scud so I was able to actually compare both cars immediately without "lag".

First of all, I must say that I am a "fair" driver with some years of race experience, and I'll try to be as objective as possible.


430
The Scuderia, to me, is an incredibly emotional machine. The sound/music that it makes is just terrific. I tracked it about 5 times last year in Europe, did about 15'000km in Switzerland, Italy, France. It is and remains a FAST and GREAT car. I used the scud to pickup my daughter at school, to shop for groceries, to drive the car in Piemont (Italy), south of France, and so on... As you can see, I just LOVE that car.

Sure, compared to the new generation of F's, it lacks some "gimmicks", everything is analog (instruments), but I think that it is exactly why the car is just so great. When you lift the gas at high revs, the way it pops, the awesome blue flames "thrusting" out of the exhaust when on full load and at the right temp <-- all this = just emotionally intense. My face hurts from smiling every time I take her for a spin.

458 Speciale
A whole different dimension/league. The motricity/dynamic of the car is just completely different, in a "better" way in racing terms. The handling is just incredibly good. What I think however (please don't bash me for this), is that Ferrari has trimmed/tuned the electronics so much to make the "average" driver faster on track, let him access the true power of the 458S in an easier way. What I'm trying to say with my bad english, is that there will be less difference ON TRACK between a "lambda" driver and semi-pro/pro drivers than there is in a 430 Scud. Accessing the 458 Speciale's power and incredible sideways dynamics is made pretty "easy" with the new Software on board... This means, more FUN for everybody!

HOWEVER, and there it is a big one (but don't hit me for this either), the car feels less "alive" than the Scud, has a little less soul... This is mainly due to the fact that the Scud IS louder than the Speciale (thank you f*****g EU Norms...), and all is more "perfect" ignition wise than the 430 thanks to direct injection (already present in the 458). Almost no gargle/pops at all.. really... Now, it is more efficient, faster, greater, better in all tangible aspects, no doubt. But in terms of emotions, and that is just my point of view, it lacks a tiny little bit of craziness.

This is the reason why my Speciale is still at the dealer in order to fit a switch to manually open (constantly) the exhaust valves. It won't make the car louder, but will help a lot with gargle/cracks/pops when you lift the pedal, preventing the valve from closing immediately. This is all THEORY for the moment, as it is the 1st Speciale they are doing this on at my dealer. As soon as I get the car and that I had a run with it, I'll let you know it the "emotion switch" works, or if it was just a useless try... ;-)

On a final note, if I had to sell my Scud for a Speciale, I would probably think about it twice... I'm in a lucky enough position to be able to keep both car for the moment, and I'm really happy not to have to chose between Scud and Speciale.

Hope this helps! ENJOY your Scud!!!!

 

avalante....fantastic response....and exactly what I feared. The Scud is such a soulful vehicle that it will be difficult for anything to ever compare.

 

Thanks Avalante....makes my decisions easier!

 

Alavante,

Great post, my Speciale arrives next year and I'm keen to know about the " emotional switch" returning some of the pops/crackles/burbles that made the 2010/11 458's sinister.

Sadly this effect was not as pronounced in my 12 458

Can you if you haven't already ask the dealer does the switch void warranty?

Thanks and enjoy your new beast

 

@petretta + dustman:

You're welcome. Sorry for your dealers... ;-)

@jacinto:

I'll let you know how it works... if it works. One thing I forgot to mention: when we tested the Speciale at Fiorano, the test drivers agreed that the Speciale sound louder after having done some 2000-3000km. One of them had only 750km and was really low on sound, one had over 5000km and was way louder. Still below Scud level anyhow...

Regarding warranty: it's completely up to the dealer, no matter what they say. Honestly, the minute you set a tire on a track with a Ferrari (or a Porsche for that matter), the warranty is completely void. Worldwide. No exceptions. Now, when the dealer sells you a Scud, a Speciale or a GT3 (for Porsche), do they really expect you to NOT TRACK the car???? Really??? If the dealers respected the warranty rules of Ferrari, there would be a LARGE drop in sales... What happens, for example for a tracked car, when it comes back for the yearly inspection, is that they have to enter some points into the computer/system linked to Ferrari's database. And the questions are as follows:

1.) Is the car crashed?
2.) Do you THINK the car has been tracked?

If any of these answers is YES, the warranty is void... obviously there are up to 150 such questions... but these are the first ones.

Now, if the car isn't completely wrecked from tracking it, the dealer (if he is fair with you, and that you should clear with him BEFORE getting the car..) will always say NO to question 2... Otherwise they would lose sales and business (sales of brake discs and pads anyone?... Possible bumpers to change?....)

Same applies for mods that do seriously not damage the car at all, and this switch belongs in that category. The valves are only in there to cancel the noise, because of sound regulations. The dB level in EU for automakers (correct me if I'm wrong), is measured at 3000RPM.. hence the valves opening up at 3050RPM.. ;-)

Hope this helps!

 

I just bought a 2010 458. The newer ones don't make the same noises on decel?

 

No,the newest don't make the same and continuous noise as the older ones on decel.

By the way thanks for share your experience with the Scud and 458 Speciale Avalente.

 

Correct, there is much more drama on overrun in earlier models.

 

That's fascinating. I wonder why they changed that? I'm not a "louder is faster" guy at all. But I love the sounds my car makes. For me it's a great balance of livability and symphony.

 

I believe the 'Overruns Pops crackles and babbles' because of excess fuel dumps may result in Cat failures in the longer run. Is this a possibility?

 

Avelante- great comparison. Currently have a scud and the headers are fabspeed with cat backs so it's much louder than usual. Considered ordering Speciale, but in love with rawness of Scud. Looks like I'll be keeping my Scud ))

 

Thanks Avalente,

Good insights here, interesting observation on the noise levels with varying mileage. The rule then is don't turn it into a garage queen if you want more noise

Great that you managed to drive them in Fiorano, how was this organised through your dealer? We are trying to get something similar up for Oz buyers through our excellent Australian importer.

There will be a pair of Speciale's at Ferrari Racing Days in April so it's another opportunity for a closer look.

Thanks

 

Maybe my 12 italia coupe is a rarity but mine screams and has massive crackle and pop on overruns so possibly it is more due to driver style than year model. I drove a number of 11 cars and I can't pick the difference except for the extra kick on up changes in race mode.

Interestingly though I traded my Scud for the italia and am equally if not more impressed with the exhaust note. I think the logical choice for exiting Scud owners is to upgrade to the Speciale especially if you plan to track the car. The Speciale will need to produce a "speciale" sound to top the scud .

 

Grüezi /Bonjour/Buongiorno/bun di Avalente

Thanks for sharing your driving Impressions, very comprehensible. I owned a 360CS and moved to a 458 Italia. I felt it much less emotional than the CS. Even if the Italia was a big step forward in Terms of technology and performace. A clear lack of Soul..

My Speciale gets delivery end of April. And I will for sure modify the exhaust....

I have never owned a SCUD (my GT3 Scuderia does not Count) but if so, I would also think twice to move to a SPEC, not sure if its worth... maybe one of the last old Generation ferraris?

Which area are u from Avalente?

 

Hi Christoph!

You're welcome. I made some wise choices in the past by reading some posts on this forum, so I felt it was time to "give something back" ;-).

I'm in Lausanne. How about you? German part of CH?

 

can the SCUD owners comment on the difference in how the transmission feels? Can you ever go back to the single clutch F1 tranny once you are used to the smoothness of the DCT? Or does the SCUD offer a different enough shifting sensation that is not directly comparable?

 

Hello Maomaoferrari,

The Scud single clutch system is really a good system. To me, it contributes heavily to the soul factor of the car. At full load, in race mode, the difference between dual and single clutch is very very small. In pure time (racing), I'd say you don't notice it.

However, dual clutch is way better for everyday use because both clutches are in am oil bath and don't really wear. Yes the changes are smoother, but it's not necessarily "better" im terms of emotions.

I use emotions and soul a lot because these terms are also why I like ferrari over let's say, McLaren/Porche. These cars are just incredible, but lack this special feeling you have with a Ferrari.

Hope this helps.


Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de Tapatalk

 

I'm sorry but I was once in a Q&A with FNE who absolutely disputed this - do you have any proof or is it more-or-less an urban myth ?

 

Not sure how you can say that the Italia has a lack of soul...put it in race mode and punch the gas...if that doesnt awaken your soul then maybe try an exorcism!!!