The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Gotcha makes sense.

Its not just 60s Ferraris that needs suspension shimming, my 355 mule has loads of them in the suspension pick up points!

 

Why in the world would some mob boss pick on / threaten a car builder? ( I read the article in your link.)

Tom had no connections to get help from?

Sorry for the off topic. But its germane to how the parts ended up neglected and sold off to Mr Piper.

 

Wasn't anyone who remotely had any success being threatened in Italy at that time.

 

Money owed? Tom was often in need of it and at one time actually wound up homeless living in his car. When you owe money to some people not paying it back is not a good idea...

 

That too. A lot of Kidnapping, extortion and killing in those days. Enzo himself travelled with several bodyguards at that time. In those days a lot of things could get one involved in a bad way with the wrong people.

 

Josh's phone call to me right after Tom Died came totally out of the Blue. I had never spoken to or met Josh before that. As Tom's statement is "Death Bed" it could even be used in a court of law. The statement is a very interesting piece of a very interesting puzzle that over the years has become less of a puzzle...

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ286Fpq7Fs[/ame]

 

Now things are just getting bizarre.

 

Thank you for the replies. I would have thought his connections to Ferrari and racing would allow him contact with elevated people in authority to help him.

I mess with cheap Ferrari's and I get too rub elbows with some cool people.

Thank you.

 

One thing that hasn't been talked about much is what was the condition of 0846 when it was scrapped and why did the scrap it out.

If you look at the photos, it's obvious that there wasn't a huge amount of damage to the frame, it wasn't actually crashed, just had some body damage from the flailing tire, and of course the fire damage, but cars with this much damage are often repaired.

But if you think about it, at that time 0846 had served its purpose. The season was winding down. After Le Mans they really didn't need as many team cars to finish out the season. In those days they brought more cars to the long races where attrition was greater, and fewer cars to shorter races. Since they weren't going to bring everything they had to the remaining races anyway, there was really no reason to spend anything on a car that was probably salvageable, but would be made obsolete by rule changes in the upcoming year. Salvaging the engine and transmission for spares for the other cars for the few remaining races did make sense. With the car being obsolete, other than turning it into a Can Am, (and the market for a losing car in that series was pretty small), it would have been sold off for pennies on the dollar anyway.

I'm sure they just pulled what was useful off the car, stripped out the engine, transmission and anything of major value and put what was left behind the factory (where Tom Mede probably salvaged it). Tom, being more than a bit of a scavenger saw that what was left could probably be salvaged, and with some work could be used for one of his projects. Some burn damage, but most of the steel parts were just fine.

It's much like a well used car that gets totaled after minor accident that with a newer, more valuable car, you would go ahead and fix it. If the car is worth $5,000 and the damage is more than that it goes to the salvage yard, but if the car is worth $20k it gets fixed no questions asked. At the time 0846 wasn't worth much, was a leftover mule for the P4's, and wasn't worth fixing for the next year, so it was scrapped.

Given how stretched Ferrari was at the time, that was probably the right decision and it all makes a lot more sense in that context. The old man didn't care about history, just because this was the Daytona winner meant nothing to him. He'd just as soon sell it as scrap at that point and be done with it as opposed to spend more money on a car that he couldn't sell for much anyway.

 

Are there photos of the car immediately after Napolis salvaged it? I have not seen them and have been through this thread--maybe I just missed them.

 

Napolis didn't take it from the bin. He bought it from Piper years after.

Do you request images shortly after it was taken out of the bin or images shortly after JG bought it?

 

There is no proof 0846 was taken out of the bin. Posts like yours are how people become misinformed by firstly interpreting conjecture as fact and then far worse, spreading that conjecture as fact to the populous.

 

Except for the metal frame that was taken out of that bin sits before us.

There is no proof that it doesn't. Posts like yours are how people become misinformed by interpreting conjecture as fact.

Come up with proof that it doesn't or it's just internet noise.

Personally, if you were really an enthusiast of Ferrari, you would hope for the preservation of a very important Ferrari, I think your goal here would be to find more proof to substantiate this letter versus immediately try to shoot it down.

But your job here is not that of an enthusiast. It's of a hired assassin.

Like maybe somebody has a photo of the back of Meade's shop back in the day.

Nice to see this letter come forward. Good to hear a direct account of how the frame made it from Ferrari to Piper.

 

There is more evidence to suggest that it was than wasn't.

Instead of trolling and avoiding pertinent questions, perhaps your time could be spent mounting a better case that it wasn't with evidence and facts.

Lacking the balls to directly state that you didn't think this car is chassis 0846 when I asked you multiple times wasn't a good start. You are not an inquisitive neutral therefore you should present a decent argument against JG's claim. You haven't thus far.

 

I met Josh Lange at Amelia Is and he introduced himself as I was photographing 0846. He said he asked me if I knew who Tom Meade was, I said i had heard of him.. He alluded to having some information that would shed light on the 0846 story, well, after reading his story, what he was telling me made complete sense.
Another part of the story filled in.

 

Why are the photographs of Tom Meade delivering the P4 body parts and a chassis to David Piper attached to the story? The chassis is 0818. There is no connection whatsoever to 0846. We already know of the David Piper and Tom Meade association.

Posted many years ago by Marcel Massini:

 

We already knew a lot of things. Doesn't stop them from being repeated. Or forgotten.

Now we know a lot more and a picture showing the association is just what the letter points out. Why not show it as Piper and Meades association is at the basis of the letter?

I don't recall any mention that the frame was 0846 on that page?

Is this that conjecture thing?

 

Tom Meade didn't like Piper because he copied others' work did he? With the greatest respect to Tom what about what he copied then? Here's 1777GT for starters which is a copy of a '64 250 GTO without a roof.

"Tom did not mince words, he told me that he did not like Piper because he copied the work of others. Something Tom and I felt very strongly about was to always be original and never, ever, make a copy or false car."

Sorry, but the story is not believable.

1960 Ferrari 250 GT "Nembo" Spyder | Automobiles of London 2007 | RM AUCTIONS
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What does this have to do with 0846?

 

The stories about DP ending up with the scrapped 0846 chassis that Tom Meade allegedly purchased personally from Enzo Ferrari or took out of the Ferrari skip and tried to unsuccessfully peddle everywhere are ludicrous. DP would have seen this chassis on the premises he shared with Tom and known it well. Don't you think that DP would have recognised it instantly if the chassis maker that he had commissioned to make him a new chassis and then delivers 0846, with all of its unique identifying characteristics such as Le Mans fire damage and Targa Florio X 2 crash damage including Sparling weld? Oh and let's not let us forget the additional instantly identifiable features of this allegedly being a P3 chassis with a shortened wheelbase and modified to accept a P4 engine with additional P4 mounts and the "vestigial" P3 mounts clearly intact in full view. These are features that are said by Jim to be easily identifiable from a grainy picture taken from 20ft away. I have never heard anyone accuse DP of being blind before.

Furthermore, why would Tom Meade use the chassis maker as a middle man? Tom would have sold it direct to DP for more money, "if this was the case."

 

As much, or as little, as usual.

 

This is the one question I've had. How did Piper not realize it? Wouldn't Meade tell him that this was 0846 when he sold it?

But if Piper did know it was 0846, he would have clearly sold it for more money, as it has been stated it was the deal of a lifetime.

That tells me he didn't. For whatever reason. Maybe back then it was more about getting them together to go racing then look too deep into having altered frame/motor attachment points and possibly being a wrecked car. To him it was 0003. A P4 frame he commissioned. And he slapped it together.

So again, it gets back to the chassis. How is it sitting here if you are saying what was stated in that letter is big time fantasy island?

Could you please put together a list of people that are lying about their stories versus, not lying? As I'm getting confused?

What is one piece of expert testimonial you've put together, coupled with evidence that 0846 is not 0846 and any idea of where the current chassis came from?

 

Tom Meade FTW!


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