The Massa Sucks Thread *OF COURSE THERE ARE SPOILERS*

It doesn't take a genius to look at a stop watch to make that call.

If you were the team manager, you'd have made the same call. If you didn't, you're going to have to have a long talk with the team owner about why you didn't ask the slower car to move over for the faster one at the end of the race.

 

Doesn't answer my question....

I beg to differ. He was on *marginally* newer tires and took a long time to catch up. Phil had also been trying to push JB. Maybe, just maybe, Phil's vast experience suggested he couldn't get past and he back off a little and save these delicate things for another day?

Terrible, terrible, call from the wall.

I just wanna know who made it.....

Cheers,
Ian
EDIT; or are you suggesting Frank made the call? If so, I apologize.....

 

So, you were there with the stop watch and looking at the situation of both cars with all the data and you know better that the team manager. Got it.

Did you predict the Hindenburg disaster too in a former life?

The bad call was Massa ignoring it thinking he knew better than the team for his own selfish reasons. What he should have done is not ignore it and then argue his case later behind closed doors.

That would have been the professional way. Unfortunately he chose the way a child does when mommy says "go clean up your room" -- ignore it.

Sometimes you guys just don't get it. The team gets money for getting points. What the drivers do in their championship means nothing.

If the team felt Bottas had a better chance to pick up one more point than Massa, then it's the right call to put themselves in a situation to have that chance.

There's only one reason why Massa said "no". It's because he couldn't stand the idea that he's second fastest on his new team and didn't like to be told so.

 

Still doesn't answer my question.....

 

I'll give you Hillary's answer

"What difference does it make?"

 

At Ferrari, Massa always leapt out of the way when given team orders. He was a paid driver then. Now he's a paying driver, so I guess he thinks he can call the shots at Williams. Question is - will he cost Williams more in lost WCC cash than he brings to this team? The good news is that it is looking increasingly likely that this year he will be his last in Formula 1. I hope he doesn't take cash strapped Williams down with him.

 

The way Williams went about it was wrong ''Bottas is faster than you'', just a hit in the balls with a sledge hammer for Felipe, isn't it?

They should have given him a coded message which indicated a switchback if Bottas couldn't get past button either.

 

Which is why many people in the sport think Williams are just a touch out sorts here. If Bottas needed to get around Felipe he knows where the gas pedal is. He needs to put on his 'im no longer a rookie' driving shoes and compete, and stamp his authority and put Felipe in his place. If he cant whatever.

 

What did he cost them? ZERO. They finished in the points and got the same amount whether Bottas passed or not.

 

Sure, that's why when Bottas got too close to Massa early in the race, Massa was on the radio whining "Did you see what he did? Make him stop!" to the team. All that was missing was a "Mommy!" Because if Massa couldn't keep him from passing, whatever, right? Apparently not for Massa, he had to whine for team orders then.

Williams stated that the request to Massa to let Bottas pass was given 10 laps from the end. Massa had his chance at passing Button, and had proved unable to pull it off. Williams knew that Bottas had fresher tires and faster pace, so wanted to let Bottas have a shot at Button over the last 10 laps (it wasn't the last 4 laps, the message was only broadcast on the world feed with 4 laps to go, but it had been sent by the team with 10 laps to go, according to Williams themselves).

What did Massa cost them? A potential 6th and 8th place finish, instead of 7th and 8th. Williams doesn't give a damn who's name is on the side of the car, they would far sooner have 6th and 8th than 7th and 8th. Massa doesn't actually know better than the team. He needs to shut the hell up and do what he's told. If he wants to make decisions about which car is faster with all the technical information to make that decision, he should get out of the car and sit behind a computer on the pit wall. That's the team's job, Massa's job is to drive the car AND do what he's told.

 

More data on the Williams debacle.

2014 Malaysia GP analysis: Delving into the detail and strategies at Sepang | Features & Experts | Sky Sports Formula 1

 

M-U-S-T...R-E-S-I-S-T....i can't, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

 

Alternative history: the 2008championship without misfortune - Forum - F1technical.net

If we take mechanical failures away from everyone, Massa would've won it by 10 points, 16 if one considers the Spa Hamilton penalty fair.

 

Simple as that.

And he probably had flashbacks of Hockenheim and decided to be a big man by not following.

The tone of his voice over the radio spoke volumes. A happy family this is no longer

 

A brilliant point!

 

If we take mechanical failures out of the equation we can rewrite the book of F1 WDCs.

If we take unfair FIA rulings out of the equation the book needs a few amendments.

 

+1 exactly.

 

Whether the penalty was right or not, even Hamilton's best friend, Rosberg, (they've been friends for many years before Mercedes or even F1, used to kart and travel together) agreed with Trulli's view: Trulli believed that "Hamilton got an advantage by cutting the chicane", saying, "Had he stayed on the road, he wouldn't have had the speed to overtake the Ferrari. In the same way at Monza someone could cut the first chicane, catch a rival's draft, and overtake him under braking at Roggia"

It is what it is, Hamilton got the WDC. No sour grapes from me, really. Had Ferrari built the car a tiny bit more reliable (hungary with just a lap or 2 to go when the engine went boom), the story would be different. They didn't, so it's not. Own fault.

 

Bas, Hamilton was on different tyres he caught Kimi up very quickly, it was a wet track, Ham gave Kimi the position back, Kimi fought hard then crashed himself, there is no question Hamilton would have taken him at some stage.

Mclaren asked CW 3 times I think ...were they good to go, yes on all occasions, thats until that silly bastrd Mosley decided to change the results, his hate and jealously of Ron Dennis was the reason.

The fact is Hamilton did not need any draft or anything else he was simply on better tyres for the conditions, and was much quicker at that stage, there was no advantage whatsoever cutting the chicane as Hamilton gave the position back and was out of position, all he did was a very quick switch back, but it was legal.

 

Yup all very true.

IIRC straight after this they made it an official rule to wait at least 1 corner to reattempt an overtake rather than whatever it was before.

I see it a bit as the following: Damon hill - Schumacher 1994. Had Damon waited patiently, job done and he would've been a WDC.

I can see where you're coming from, Ham was much faster at this stage. Patience wasn't his strong point then. Drivers and others where 50/50 on it. They either said they agreed with the stewards or where against it.

 

Fact remains that Massa got a 14 points boost by the FIA that season, which was the sole reason he was still a WDC contender to the last race.

If it hadn't been for these blatant manipulations of the championship there wouldn't be that repetitious talk about him coming close

 

Just a few?? Huh?

Now seriously, you and the Hamilton fanboy are spoiling this magnificent thread with the same old stories about 2008. Why? No need for that, Massa is always bringing new and fresh stuff to complain about.

 

I think we discussed that before...those 14 points where are they coming from?

ps..it really is a can of worms....

 

No, I'm saying that if we didn't know what words were used, what the messages were, and just watched a race where Bottas didn't pass Massa, no one would be saying Bottas "deserved" the position, or that Massa "disobeyed" anything, and all the value judgements that come with those sorts of statements.

Bottas simply did not manage to pass Massa. That's all there is to it, IMO.

 

The only person interesting at Williams is Claire