The leave Massa alone Thread!

Massa has to be one of the most polarizing drivers ever.

 

Agree on all.

 

Now where's that 'Leave Brittany alone' video....

 

I have no particular axe to grind with Massa, however you only have to ask Vettel the consequences of ignoring team orders, folk do not like it, hence the booing, so IMO he did himself no favours, but there again I'am no fan of team orders so be it let the best man win, but do not take each other out.

 

Geez get over it. He's no saint.

He screwed up. He made his bed and now needs to lie in it.

The next time he pulls this stunt he might be looking for a new job. I think he found that out the last few days.


F1 is a team sport, not Massa's personal quest. The team does what the team wants. If he doesn't like it, he can go to Marussa where they will bow in his awesomeness.

Williams needs points so they can get money. Anyway they feel they can get points is their call, not Massa's.

Bottas started 18th and by the last 10 laps was on Massa's butt. You tell me who was quicker in the race.



You guys argue two things at the same time.

You hate team orders. Ok, so do I. But they exist because of the way the teams look at getting points to get more cash at the end of the year. Blame the POINTS SYSTEM, not the teams. The point system forces them to look at maximizing team points at the expense of the goals of individual drivers. Bottas was quicker and had a better chance to pick up more points. Even if that's not correct, that's what the team manager felt.

You think Massa should be allowed to ignore team orders. Well, I don't. You have a head of the team and they decide what is best for the team, not one driver. If your boss walks into your office and asks you to finish the report you're working on by noon, is it OK to just blow him off and say in front of everyone "I know better. I'm not doing it"?

You really think you can get away with that?

Then why should Massa?

 

I disagree that he did the wrong thing, especially if it is true that he made his intentions clear to the team before he signed on that he was no longer going to accept being treated as the #2 driver. They should have known that asking him to let his teammate would be met with silence; I knew what his reaction was going to be and I was watching on TV.

As for the fans booing, well, I think he is past caring what the fans think and honestly you can't please everybody. He's at that point in his career where if he doesn't do it (win a championship) now, it's not going to happen.

 

Williams' car s on the grid due to money from Petrobras and Banco do Brasil.

Please name Finnish companies sponsoring Williams this year.

If this sort of thing continues, which I believe it won't, I think the team will be extra tolerant of Massa until the end of the year.

It's very rare for drivers to get fired mid season, particularly ones who are responsible for sponsorship.

Having said that, Nasr is the #3 driver....

 

But what if he let the team know before he signed on that he would not follow any team orders that would affect him negatively in the championship? He says he made his intentions clear before he signed on. If they promised him equal treatment before the season began, they can't now cry "foul" because he did exactly what he said he was going to do.

Bottom line, they knew what they were getting into at the beginning of the year and didn't care, and now they realize they might have made a mistake. You can't have it both ways.

 

"But what"?

You just ended your attempt to give Massa cover with the first two words and compounded it with "if".


Even if you use the words "equal treatment", that doesn't mean that they should let a slower car hold up a faster car.

That's not equal. That's favoritism.

 

I said "if" because that's what Massa claims he told the team. I haven't heard anyone else confirm his side of the story. Massa says he told the team he was done being the servant. It's pretty clear to me what that means. "If" what Massa says is true and he told the team before he signed that he was not going to be the #2 driver, then the team cannot be upset when Massa does exactly what he told them he would do.

It would be like me telling my prospective employer that under no circumstances would I be willing to work more than 40 hours a week and then after agreeing to my terms my boss gets mad at me for not working overtime when he asks me to. You can't have it both ways.

 

agreed, but is not really a problem is it. A bunch of guys on the internet feel the need to constantly show their hatred towards someone who drives a F1 car for a living, making millions while doing it. It doesn't get much more pathetic than that.

 

What is a "servant"? Better yet, you should ask what is a "team player"?

Clearly, Massa can't answer the second.

BTW: If I were your perspective employer and you told me under "no circumstances" would you work more than 40 hours --- you wouldn't be working for my company or team.

This I believe is what Massa found out the last few days.


Here is what you miss entirely.

Williams was NOT making Massa #2 to favor Bottas. Bottas WAS faster. If Massa was faster they would have asked Bottas to move over. By their calculation, Bottas had a chance to put pressure on the guy ahead and maybe take an additional point. Massa couldn't. He just didn't have the tires.

Massa and Bottas already touched and dodged a bullet. The team didn't want that again.

When they did this to Massa at Ferrari, it was to favor Alonso. That was wrong but Massa did what he was told to do.

This time, Williams did it to favor the team -- and Massa thought he didn't need to listen.

 

It is up to him then to do as he see's fit, however IMO Vettel had arguably/more justification to disobey, I didn't think it was fair play as Webber was on his backfoot not expecting a attack...but when ruthless wins WDC's so be it.

IMO Massa is not going to win any fans over disobeying team orders that's my point, and I'am assuming Bottas will not be doing Massa any favours in the near future now.

Ignoring team orders well.... personally I would rather think you would have to back that up with exceptional track performances and results...well we shall have to wait and see.

 

Yes, but if you DID hire me would you still have the right to ask me to work overtime? And if you went ahead and ordered me to work overtime and I told you to go pound sand, whose problem would that be? Certainly not mine. I told you up front what the rules were.

I think you're missing my point entirely. If Massa told them up front what his conditions were before signing him on as a driver, they can't now come out and complain about Massa not following team orders. It's their own fault for hiring the guy in the first place.

 

your point only flies if Massa has a clause in his contract that stipulates that he doesn't have to obey teamorders. That is too unlikely to even take into consideration.

 

I guess my point is, there has to be something greater than the individual in every situation for an organization to be successful.

I also preface it with "if". We don't know what the team agreed to. It's all speculation.

But you have to wonder why they would ask him to move over if they knew he wouldn't from a pre-conditional or implied clause in his contract.


And, one more thing. Massa could have just said "It's in my contract to not move over for anyone" and that would have ended it all.

He didn't say that. He said he believed he did "nothing wrong". Not the same at all. It was his decision that the team was making a mistake. That's not the same as "they can't ask me so I didn't listen".

 

True. I see your point.


Different aspect about this that has been bothering me: I really wish the guy on the radio would have worded his request for Massa to pull over differently. I mean, it's almost like he went out of his way to make it sound EXACTLY like what was said at Ferrari. I wonder if Massa would have reacted differently if he was asked in a more "tactful" way? I mean, 90% of getting someone to do something you know they don't want to boils down to how you ask them. Lording it over someone that you're their boss and they have to do what you say only works for so long.

 

until i see results, massa still sucks. it's not like disobeying team orders got him onto the podium...

/thread

 

You get the bravest post of the month award. You do realize that they burned people like Massa a long time ago at the stake in certain parts of Europe

 

For the most part I agree with you, but not on this point. The infamous "Fernando is faster than you" message came after Alonso repeatedly caught up to Massa, rode in his slipstream and backed off, interspersed with Smedley urging "Come on, Lad, push!! Push!! You need to maintain a gap!!"

Massa couldn't open and maintain a gap, ergo Fernando WAS faster than him, and that was the team call.

Last week in my eyes was no different. Bottas was faster than him, and should have been allowed to take the fight to Button.

 

Meh, don´t take it too seriously, it´s just that people is cruel when is bored and angry, and F1 often gives reasons to be so. Plus, most users of internet forums are retarded or attention whores so who cares? ;-p

 

"Do you see what he did ? He crashed me !"

 

Zing!

 

Vettel opened the door for all drivers to ignore team orders. RB didn't slam it shut when it had the chance.
I would like to think of F1 as a team sport but it isn't even a sport at this point. Its a business and every individual actor is going to be looking out for his own interests.
Phil may get slapped down by the team for what he did. But it was his only shot. If he rolled over he'd be the defacto number two no matter what Williams were to claim.