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Scuderia cage / roll bar

Discussion in '360/430' started by MAKHNO, Mar 31, 2014.

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  1. MAKHNO

    MAKHNO Rookie

    Mar 24, 2014
    43
    #1 MAKHNO, Mar 31, 2014
    Hi, just bought my first Ferrari - had a burning hot 991 GT3 that I got tired of collecting dust in the garage, while Porsche does R&D for my money.

    So I am now the owner of a 430 Scuderia.
    It has 4-point from the factory but not the cage.
    What is peoples take on this, is it stiff enough if it lands in the top or does everyone put in the cage?
     
  2. johan6504

    johan6504 Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2005
    1,168
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Johan
    #2 johan6504, Apr 1, 2014
    I have the setup and was asking my self the same question when I bought the car. I asked Ferrari and they say the car is stiff enough as it is without the roll bar, but I am still not sure I believe that...

    I haven't really found any good alternative roll bar either.
     
  3. MAKHNO

    MAKHNO Rookie

    Mar 24, 2014
    43
    #3 MAKHNO, Apr 2, 2014
    So did you put in the cage?
     
  4. Afonsolaw

    Afonsolaw Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2011
    1,911
    New jersey
    #4 Afonsolaw, Apr 2, 2014
    Lets se pics if your scud and these harnesses
     
  5. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,070
    socal
    #5 fatbillybob, Apr 3, 2014
    crash deltas are thought of in G's. So a 35mph delta is about a 20g crash. 45mph crash delta is about a 50g crash. IIRC federal mandates are that roof structures are supposed to survive only 3g's! So if you plan to track more than occasionally the conventional wisdom is to add a 4pt rollover hoop. It is not a cage until you have 6-8 bolted/welded connection points to the chassis and that means door bars of typically "X" or NASCAR variety. Then there is the urban legion of never drive a streetcar with bars that you can hit your head on, i.e. no cage in streetcars. While this is repeated ad nausium on car websites very famous people in the race safety industry such as Joe Marko of HMS motorsports the Schroth harness importer poo poo that cliche. If you have bars you can hit pad them with SFI 45.1 rollbar padding and what Joe Marko says should be reliable.
     
  6. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #6 singletrack, Apr 3, 2014
    I agree.

    Problem is that many people that drive with cages on the street actually do it for show or simply don't pad them - as insane as that might sound.
     
  7. johan6504

    johan6504 Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2005
    1,168
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    Full Name:
    Johan
    #7 johan6504, Apr 7, 2014
    No never found a suitable bar...
     
  8. MAKHNO

    MAKHNO Rookie

    Mar 24, 2014
    43
    #8 MAKHNO, Apr 7, 2014
    I just ordered the factory one, only 16 weeks delivery ?!??
    Have to get used to Italian mentality from now on
     
  9. jlonmark

    jlonmark F1 Rookie

    Mar 29, 2005
    3,204
    Beverly Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Jay
    #9 jlonmark, Apr 7, 2014
    I really need to see some picts here! Making an already amazing track car even more amazing
     
  10. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #10 singletrack, Apr 7, 2014
    Nice! Please post pics!
     
  11. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #11 singletrack, Apr 24, 2014
    Sent you a PM for more details : )
     
  12. RBM

    RBM Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    867
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    #12 RBM, Apr 24, 2014
    You have made some significant simplifying assumptions in your calculations. Those numbers represent near-instantaneous inelastic collisions against an immovable object (M1 >>> M2). You forgot to state the time of deceleration, without which, you cannot calculate the g-force.

    For instance, a constant decelaration from 60 mph to 0 mph in 1.0 second, representing an elastic collision against a fixed object (such as a car with a collapsible crash structure forward of the cabin, and an airbag + seatbelt) is less than 3.0 G's exerted on the occupant. Easily survivable and does not exceed the design specs of the safety cell of most modern passenger cars.
     
  13. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,070
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    #13 fatbillybob, Apr 24, 2014
    Your math is right but your assumptions about crash pulse duration are wrong. What I quote is generally accepted in the industry. Dale Earnhart's fatal crash delta was 42-44mph.
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  14. Darth_Homer

    Darth_Homer Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2014
    272
    #14 Darth_Homer, Apr 25, 2014
    where did you get to order an OEM factory roll bar? I want one too for my Scud.. :)
     
  15. RBM

    RBM Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
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    RBM
    #15 RBM, Apr 25, 2014
    I totally agree that none of my assumptions for a passenger car crash apply to Earnhardt's crash in a NASCAR stock car. A tube frame stock car has no crumple zone to spread the impulse load, nor does it have an airbag to physically cushion the driver. In this instance, the seat belt also failed to spread the impulse load. Also, the steering wheel acted to compromise the living space within the safety cell. This very unique circumstance was as close to an inelastic collision as you can get, and exerted a force in a point load on a vulnerable part of the body.
     
  16. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #16 singletrack, Apr 25, 2014
    I will be at Ferrari Dealer next Tuesday and am going to ask for part numbers and a quote. We will see what they say...
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,070
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    #17 fatbillybob, Apr 26, 2014
    Nope both are complete safety systems for their own environment. A stock car is designed with crumple or parts that come off to spread of energy. You want inelastic, how about a utility pole? I would take racecar hazzards in a racecar over oem systems and a k rail or utility pole. Government and ihs crash test at 35mph. Earnhardt died at 42-44mph. His crash is not the only one. We loose a clubracer about once a year. We loose an hpde'er about every five years.
     
  18. pwn

    pwn Rookie

    Oct 16, 2012
    27
    #18 pwn, Apr 26, 2014
  19. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
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    #19 MaranelloDave, Apr 26, 2014
    That is a nice job. I wonder if it still enables full rearward adjustment of the seats.
     
  20. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
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    #20 greyboxer, Apr 26, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
    The part no (but no price) are in the parts book @ Ricambi Ferrari 430 Scuderia Parts : Table 121 - RACING SEAT-4 POINT BELTS-ROLL BAR

    In the UK Eurospares parts book it shows at about USD 4000 plus sales tax

    Looks like all you needed to do was ask your dealer....
     
  21. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    11,635
    #21 Caeruleus11, Apr 26, 2014
    Thats great work!
     
  22. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    #22 singletrack, Apr 26, 2014
    Thanks!

    I'm also getting quotes from iND/fall-line and iND/Ai (one pictured above). We'll see how they come out...will share what I'm able.
     
  23. Darth_Homer

    Darth_Homer Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2014
    272
    #23 Darth_Homer, Apr 28, 2014
    Got a quote already from Denis at Ricambi...
    Roll Bar:
    · Standard: pn 81021600 $3992.61

    · Alcantara: pn 804319.. $3985.76

    · Leather: pn 810217.. $4696.84

    (Note: It seems that 1 in leather is available at the factory, but will have to wait Monday to confirm)

    The 4 points harnesses are:
    · RH. 80977600 (black) $979.33 (To Be ordered - 10 business days)

    · LH: 80978700 (black) $979.33 (To Be ordered - 10 business days)
     
  24. Kislik

    Kislik Rookie

    Apr 20, 2014
    38
    #24 Kislik, Apr 29, 2014

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