The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Found this photo, but don't think there is enough detail to indicate if P3 chassis at the rear and of course to see the engine mount adaptions.

From 1967 24 Hours of Daytona - Race Profile, History, Photos
Pete
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Does anybody here know Mauro Forghieri or any of the other 1966-1967 Ferrari works chassis engineers who are still here to ask any of them who about the rear tubing and engine mounts? Forghieri would know for sure.

 

F-Chatter jj2728 has other pictures of 0846 at Daytona, 67.

Can anyone explain the difference in the tubes around the gearbox?
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Where please?

Valid point. Assume accident damage but definitely different.
Pete

 

Actualy the pic is stolen from an f-chatter Patrick...i have the same model

 

Is it very detailed? What do the engine mounts look like?
Pete

 

Yeah, that's one of mine. I'll check to see what others I have. I know I've posted them here before and I'm scanning others. If I come across anything new I'll post. Cheers.

 

0846 started with (longer?) P3 engine and 693A gearbox in '66, got P4 engine for testing in late '66 as prototype P4, got 603R gearbox before Daytona, and had P4 engine and 593A (and back to inboard brakes) when sold to Jim; and now it appears to have a 603R gearbox again. So it's not surprising there have been some changes to the framing at the back end.

Paul M

 

I'm sure you meant to say that P3 0846 started with a tipo 593 gearbox.

Regarding the gearbox framework on Jim's car, which is not right for 0846 as a P3 with the 593 gearbox either, it's something that Jim would have slammed David Piper very very hard for in the reconfiguration of 0858 to P4 in making the same error, if this is the case. Pictures from Jim's 0846 pdf.
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Now you are presupposing Mr. G's actions???

You are really an odd personality...that's pure conjecture on your part.

Your comments like that do yourself no favors, in the other facts (or opinions) you attempt to convey,....

 

Some things just have to be said. Conjecture??? Hmmm, yes it's rife through this thread and is the core and all of what Jim has presented for the case of his car being the original 0846. Let's have some solid evidence. How about one expert testimony for starters? Why doesn't Jim commission Marcel Massini to prepare a proper report?

 

Conjecture about the machine itself is valid.

As to what Jim "might say" about the other restoration, you have launched into groundless fantasy..

He was a potential buyer of that car (we had a PM conversation about it, as Walter Medlin is a personal interest of mine, with his rusting Florida stash) so his private discussions with Classiche were interesting to me.

They seemed to feel (my opinion only, of his comments with Classiche) that it should have stayed a 350 Can Am. That definitely effected the real world value "what it is worth"..

Jim passed on buying it, and the rest of his comments were addressed towards the subsequent build, and as he has a barn full of real pieces, from his real cars, he was more than well versed enough to make those comments.

The restoration as it went down, rather 'sailed upwind' of the Ferrari Factorie's opinion.
That is certainly okay to do, but it would effect their support of the proct and the result, one would think.

 

You are REALLY hung up, on paperwork!!!

You have requested we "hire Marcel" to make you a believer, and on the last page you had us waking Forghieri out of bed, to weigh in with his opinion!

You are good at spending other people's time and money
You should consider political office...

Marcel has seen and weighed in on the car!!
He has been photographed behind the wheel....although made no 'Public Proclamation of Fact' on that day, to my knowledge....

 

You know for the price of plane fare, and of course with his invitation, you might be welcomed to see the car yourself, "the metal" we all go on and on about.

For certain you could buy a ticket into any of the public events where it is displayed.

 

There is no solid evidence to conclude anything. That none has been presented in over 10 years speaks volumes. Why not ask Mauro Forghieri? I'm sure that for a fee, which would be well worth paying, he would cast his eyes on the engine mounts and be able to say whether they are his design/work or not.

 

What do you mean by Marcel has seen and weighed in on the car?

 

I think this is a great idea... but of course he won't do it. Makes too much sense. Since he's one of the only doubters out there, it doesn't need to be proven to anyone else. See it for yourself to satisfy your own doubts. As an 'expert' I'm certain you would know exactly what you, MuiraSV, would be looking at.

Perry

 

He sat in it, at Amelia Island, last weekend!

You need to get on the Party List, brother!!!

 

I'm done, I have flat on the RF of the Ferrari, in the garage.....bbl....

 

Well, doesn't the fact that he hasn't publicly made any comment on the car tell you something? That Marcel has sat in it does not authenticate it as the original 0846. Marcel needs to be commissioned to properly investigate the car using the correct factory build sheets and also engage other genuine experts he feels he needs to prepare a proper report and to form the correct conclusion.

 

Marcel doesn't NEED to do anything, especially not just to satisfy you. When a Ferrari is a fake, he is the first to say so, loudly and publicly - that he has been photographed sitting in it speaks more volumes than any of this impossible signed paperwork you want to see.

Yes, my typo on the 593 gearbox; and I'm well familiar with Jim's document, thanks, as some of the photos in it are ones I took when I visited David Piper's workshop nearly 20 years ago and talked to him about all his cars.... but I doubt you'll show them as they tend not to support what you want to believe.

Paul M

 

TO SATISFY WHO?

Why does he NEED to do anything? Who - that actually matters - needs to be satisfied? No one. You do not count.

The owner of the car is happy with the evidence he painstakingly researched and documented, now he's on to bigger and better things.

 

Out of work used car salesmen usually don't make the A list.

 

Now let's have this out in the open what you say does not support what I believe. To what exactly in Jim's document are you referring to?

 

Well, if the owner of the car is happy with it that's all that matters. However, this case is very different as he's not keeping that to himself but attempting to convince the world that the replica he bought is the lost and scrapped Daytona 1967 winner.