The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

"A little knowledge is dangerous."

 

If you would add this to your signature that would be great.

 

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing; drink deep or taste not the Pierian spring."

This is a quote by Alexander Pope.

 

He wrote that?
LOL

 

Italics in the original.

 

Please repost any more gems for those who have him on ignore.

 

There are people that don't have him on ignore?

 

We have a quote from Forghieri calling #0846 the bastard child. We know they adapted a P3 to a P4. Why did they do that? ... simply to save time and money.

You need to read more about Ferrari's history. There is a reason why FIAT (and nearly Ford) took over Ferrari not that much later and that is because Ferrari Spa was broke. Enzo was the master at finding funds but even he was struggling and had to put his hand up for financial backers. I suspect that 1966 and 67 seasons were in some ways responsible for that position. In fact Ferrari pulled out of sportscar racing not long after.

So again the changes you are talking about would mean that making a new P4 chassis would be simplier and cheaper ... they didn't do this so one can use logic and assume that the the adaption was relatively simple.

We also have to remember that back in those days chassis stiffness was very different to the stiffness we expect nowadays in race cars. I would be surprised that a P4 Ferrari was stiffer than a 2014 Toyota Corolla road car ... but maybe that is going to far?
Pete

 

Wayne, I think we can remove question 1. Wheelbase. No matter what the factory did or what the wheelbase is supposed to be, Jim's #0846 can be made to fit whichever in minutes thanks to adjustable suspension.
Pete

 

Fewer and fewer

 

I'm glad solofast doesn't because that reply was well worth the price of admission.

>8^)
ER

 

Easily the greatest retort in the interwebz history.

 

I suggest you go back and do some reading on Ferrari history youreslf. Ferrari did not enter any prototypes for 1968 in protest to the changes to the new regulations imposing a 3 litre limit on group 6 cars and a minimum of 50 cars to be produced for sports cars in Group 5 up to 5 litres for 1968. They re entered in 1969 with the 312P.

I'm sorry I do not understand your logic. In paragraph 1 you say Ferrari adapted a P3 to a P4 to save time and money but in paragraph 3 you say that making a new P4 chassis would be simpler and cheaper. How would making a whole new P4 chassis be simpler and cheaper than changing only the tubes of the P3 chassis for those that contained the P4 mounting points at the rear of the chassis?

 

too funny!!

 

I meant making a new P4 chassis would be cheaper and simpler than converting the whole rear section of #0846 to be true P4 format. That is pretty much half the chassis ... might as well make a new one. The tubes are not expensive it is the time and effort that costs money and takes time. Sorry for not being clear.

And yes Ferrari struggled on for a few years in sportscars but the financial issues were mounting.
Pete

 

According to the "SCHEDA TECNICA" Technical Data Sheet that Jim cites in his 0846 pdf document and everywhere else that's exactly what happened. The rear part of the tubular frame was transformed which means it was changed into something completely different which does NOT mean that the existing P3 engine tubes (tipo 216B) were adapted with additional tipo 237 P4 engine mounts as has happened to Jim's chassis and he says it means.

"Transformation of the rear part of the tubular chassis for the new Type 237 engine struts."

"Trasformazione della parte posteriore tubolare del telaio per i nuovi puntoni del motore Tipo 237."

The same "SCHEDA TECNICA" he cites also states that only the chassis 0844, 0848, 0850 and 0854 were at 2412mm when they got the ZF 5DS gearbox. 0846 never had a ZF 5DS gearbox in it.

The same "SCHEDA TECNICA" he cites also states that the wheelbase of the P3 was 2400mm, NOT 2412 mm.

Jim says the original wheelbase of his chassis with P3 mountings and tipo 593 and tipo 603 gearboxes is 2412 mm. If the "SCHEDA TECNICA" Jim cites is correct that means his chassis does not match any of the chassis numbers including 0846. Therefore if the "SCHEDA TECNICA" Jim cites is correct the forensic evidence points to Jim's chassis being a replica, as it was described to him, and what he was told he would be buying, and at the time of purchase, he knew he was buying, agreed to buy and bought.
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The Technical Card Technical Data Sheet, eh? That sound quite technical.

In all seriousness, I think you are attempting to extract far greater mystery and hidden meaning from individual words than is actually there to be found. Your view on 0846 is quite singular and I fear you have an abnormal fixation upon trying to convince us of it. As numerous people have both decided for themselves on the matter of the car's validity and have discounted your thought processes as lacking in sufficient technical experience, I doubt you will change anyone's mind by continuing. In short, you are wasting your time.

Why not enjoy talking about something else for a bit?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

There is no hidden meaning in the Technical Data Sheet. It's clear. The tubular part of the rear of the chassis was transformed on the original 0846. The tubular part of the rear of Jim's chassis has NOT been transformed/changed into something completely different. Having an ability to read is all anyone needs. No technical experience required.

Don't forget that it's Jim who cites the "SCHEDA TECNICA" in his 0846 pdf, not me.

 

Your ability to read and answer questions has been proven wanting throughout most of the past 10 pages so I put this question to you.

What about 0858 so offended you that you felt the need to carry on and on and on in this thread?

How about these fact get fully disclosed here?

(I don't expect an answer as I am sure you will post yet another rehash of what you have been posting for the last 10 pages)

 

I don't see 0858 as having anything whatsoever to do with this thread. Does 0858 change any of the forensic facts, evidence or technical details of 0846?

 

Please go back 5 pages and actually read what you typed....

Look at post #7651 the quoted part...

 

Is it not a fact that Jim criticised 0858 and other cars belonging to the vendor at every opportunity? Is it not a fact that the tubework surrounding the gearbox on his car is incorrect? Again, I put it to you, what do the facts of 0858 have to do with the forensic facts, evidence and technical details of 0846? I'll tell you. Absolutely nothing!!!

 

Really you now you contradict your earlier post? I put it to you that your views are highly inconsistent, that's been proven without refute based on the above.

Nothing you have said has disproven my opinion that Jim's remarks about 0858 started you off on this crusade, but you admitted that yourself tacitly in the above so.

Oh and one more question, who are you hoping to convince in this long drawn out backwards and forwards with the same info being posted over and over again.

PS: found employment yet or is this crusade directly linked to that venture?

 

He was one of many people who had an opinion contrary to your own on that car, but as now you felt the need to stuff you supposed expert opinion down everyone's throat, in order to convince them that you are right.

Now we are getting somewhere, can you tell me your connection to said vendor?

 

Jim's stating that Ferrari have in writing confirmed that he has resurrected 0846 on its original chassis started me off. It was nothing to do with 0858. He offered no proof of it because Ferrari did not state it. That's when I found all the other twisting of quotes by omission, obfuscation, exaggeration, misinterpretations and a failure, after Ferrari had kindly requested that he did so, to use his best endeavors to have the press clearly indicate that his car has been fully rebuilt, and as such, is not the original F0846 which has been officially scrapped by Ferrari and not sold by the company in whole or in part. Instead of that he defied their request and went on to relentlessly state that his car is the original 0846. That's when I started looking into the metal and the supposed evidence in his 0846 pdf.