355 wont crank over. | FerrariChat

355 wont crank over.

Discussion in '348/355' started by ready321now, Apr 20, 2014.

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  1. ready321now

    ready321now Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2013
    507
    New Jersey
    So...back to the forums for some much needed assistance, advice and relative comfort as I am lost in the sea of Maranello, with one oar left and a ripped sail...It's almost embarrassing to post all of my F-issues here, but I suppose now is when I need assistance the most. I guess I am one of those owners who wound up with the F 355 nightmare story.

    Here's my issues. Quite a list.

    First: I am not sure if these problems are related, but here goes. This next paragraph details how I hooked up the back-up camera and monitor (wirelss, and independently wired, and not connected to each other except via wireless signal.)

    I installed the back up camera. Problem: When I turn on/off the running lights, the motor skips a beat. When I open or close the engine cover, it does the same thing. The wireless camera is mounted to the yellow wire on the rear-right running lamp (outermost lamp). I grounded it to the black. Because of the problem with the running lights, I rewired the ground to a screw that holds some hoses...seemed like a safe spot since it wasn't electrical-related ...same issue remains.
    The wireless monitor WAS wired directly to the AC fuse, and grounded to the fuse box (there is a screw on the passenger fuse box) but I rewired all of that to the Alpine stereo (ground and hot wire.) I have a toggle switch for the monitor that is grounded to the bottom of the ashtray-electronics (black wire). At one point when I turned on the running lights, the car shut OFF. Restarted and the same thing. It seems like everything is grounded but the car doesn't like the extra load on the running lights? Maybe it's a ground problem even though I have re-grounded both systems to different areas. I'm lost on this.

    Next: To solve a persistent stalling issue when the fan kicks on....I isolated the top air duct with duct tape and carbon fiber tape, so It pulls air from the door-vent mostly, instead of the hot-air blowback from the fan. It totally solved the stalling issue, and I was thrilled. THRILLED!!!! FINALLY!!!!!

    What happened next was that the car was hesitating / fluttering upon acceleration. I pulled into a convenience store, shut the car off to look at my new vent, thinking something had changed, but the duct mod looked just like I left it: sturdy.

    The check engine light turned on as I parked. I shut the car off...when I tried to restart it, it simply would not crank. I shut the battery on and off, and I have full battery power (lights, dash lights etc). It wont crank. I can hear the fuel pump I think....I know that sound. I checked all of the fuses...and found a blown air-pump fuse and replaced it. Still no crank...I had AAA flatbed it to a friend's house. There it sits.

    The next day I looked in the engine bay and saw insulation packing all over the left side. I have a cracked manifold now too.

    Car wont crank.
    Blown manifold
    Electrical issues .

    I am out of cash, pretty much. I just gave Ferrari 13K for belts, radiator, tires, alignment, axle boots, AC system update, main oil line, compression test, manifold inspection (said they are fine), exhaust install, etc etc.

    I don't know what to do...send the car back to get a bill I can't pay as of right now? I am stuck and need to hopefully figure SOME of this out on my own.

    How much is header-repair, roughly?
    Did I screw up the car's electrical system some how?
    Why would the throttle hesitate? Blown header making a weird air-fuel mixture?
    Is it bad to isolate the top duct? The car seemed to run great after the mod and 40 miles. It never dogged-out on me once when the fan kicked on.
    What should I check to get the car started?

    Thanks...this forum has been great. Where should I start? Any advice or feedback?

    The camera seemed like a simple thing to install. Perhaps not....wonder why it is making the car unhappy?
     
  2. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    How do you know you have a blown manifold? I think Bruce has an OEM set for sale (maybe it's CAT's, not sure)
     
  3. ready321now

    ready321now Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2013
    507
    New Jersey
    I have insulation dust in the engine bay, and caked below the valve-cover. Presumably, this is caused by a cracked header blowing air into the heat-shields and the packing insulation, thereby blowing it out of the side of the manifold at the neck, where the seal is less than perfect. A tell-tale sign, from what I have read. Sigh. Maybe I should contact this fellow forum user; thanks.
     
  4. bcwawright

    bcwawright F1 Veteran

    Jul 8, 2006
    5,234
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    #4 bcwawright, Apr 20, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
    Yes that is more than likely the issue seeing those telltale signs
     
  5. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2003
    12,316
    Wayne, NJ
    Full Name:
    Clyde E. McMurdy
    Wont crank - Is your starter sticking?
    Does it try? Do the dash lights slightly dim when you turn the key? Is there any clicking?

    If it is the starter, several tries and in the early stages of fail, it will kick over.
    If so, take it to a starter shop for a rebuild or do it yourself by just cleaning the contacts and that'll hold you for a while.

    Cracked header - lightly coat the oil filter with oil. Driver her a bit. Check to see if there's white fibers stuck on the oil filter - cracked header( s) if there is. You can also find a shop in the area that will do a smoke test for the leak too. Make sure they are familiar with the smoke machine. The OEM can be welded if your on a budget.

    CEL light - pull the code. see if it points to the fan where you did your air flow mod.
     
  6. ready321now

    ready321now Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2013
    507
    New Jersey
    Thanks...the lights do not dim, there is no clicking whatsoever. I definitely have the fibers all over the place. Might have to get it welded. I will try to pull the code asap.
     
  7. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Nov 23, 2012
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    Orchard Park, NY
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    Dave Lelonek
    -Dead battery?
    - Immobilizer disarmed?
     
  8. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    6,060
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    Immobilized still allows cranking on mine
     
  9. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Nov 23, 2012
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    Mine too Grant but on Dr Bob's 97 it does not.
     
  10. ready321now

    ready321now Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2013
    507
    New Jersey
    I have full battery power....the headlights and dash lights are are fully lit up...and I use the fob to "beep beep" disarm the car. I have tried arming it then disarming it but nothing. There is no cranking, and nothing happpens except for an odd sound in the dash...it's like a slight buzzing; I suppose its usually there but I never heard it because the engine starting would drown it out.
     
  11. ready321now

    ready321now Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2013
    507
    New Jersey
    Are there any conditions where a CEL would not allow the car to start as a failsafe?
     
  12. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    13,704
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    I suggest that you undo all the electronic connections for the monitor and the back up camera. You need to get to a known state, and that is before the modification. For one thing, black wires in a car may not always be ground.

    what top air duct did you close off?
     
  13. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
    8,637
    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
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    Tim Dee
    + 10000
     
  14. ready321now

    ready321now Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2013
    507
    New Jersey
    I will do that. Also, I modified the top left air duct (behind the door) so that air only sucks in from the front of the duct as opposed to the back-side, which pulls hot air into the intake, making my car stumble to the point of almost stalling. After the mod, it did not sputter once.
    Pehaps I should just modify the radiator with shrouds or the "Gothshroud", as designed by Gothman.
     
  15. hjp

    hjp Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2013
    591
    Kansas City, Mo.
    Full Name:
    Jerry Peterson
    My '96 won't crank either if the immobilizer hasn't been set. Turn the key and nothing. Hit the button and it cranks right up.
     
  16. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
    11,301
    CT
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    John Kreskovsky
    #16 johnk..., Apr 20, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
    This may sound stupid but do your windshield wipers work when the key is turned on? If they don't check relay "P". If they do, get out a VOM and check to see if the starter solenoid is getting power when the key is turned to Start. That would be the thin wire connected to the solenoid, not the fat one. If you have 12V there and the car doesn't try to crank you may have a bad solenoid or starter motor. (Or something wrong with the immobilizer???) But before you start taking things apart, put the car in 6th gear and try to rock it. Make sure the ignition is OFF. You should be able to get the engine to a little. This is just to check that the engine is no seized. (Don't get paranoid. I'm not suggesting it is. It's just a check to see that the engine will turn.)
     
  17. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    #17 308 GTB, Apr 20, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
    That's also a good technique to get the car started if there's a dead spot on the starter commutator or bad brushes.

    This has happened to my Challenge car a few times. Rocking the car while it's in gear moves the starter motor armature a bit and enables me to start the engine.

    As John mentioned, make sure the ignition is OFF.
     
  18. emailben

    emailben Karting

    Feb 10, 2012
    195
    San Jose, CA
    My 348 had bad battery once (bad battery, not dead battery). All interior lights works, headlight works, but just won't crank. When turning the key, nothing, no starter sound at all. Replaced a brand new AGM battery. Problem solved.
     
  19. ready321now

    ready321now Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2013
    507
    New Jersey
    Battery reads 12.18 when the car is off....read from the terminals in the engine bay...I read it once when the car was running and it read 13.2 or close to that.
     
  20. ready321now

    ready321now Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2013
    507
    New Jersey
    I put it in 6th gear took off the e brake ..had the key in my pocket and it was able to move when rock in it back and forth about 2 inches. I disarmed it and tried to start it and nothing happened
     
  21. ready321now

    ready321now Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2013
    507
    New Jersey
    the windshield wipers do work. I just tried them. Now I'm going to attempt to locate the solenoid which I believe is back near the ECU for the thermocouples correct?thanks you guys for all of your help so far
     
  22. bosshog8

    bosshog8 Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2011
    448
    Pinelands NJ
    Full Name:
    Demetrius
    This won't work to test a starter unless it's stuck in the out position. It has a Bendix drive which pulls the gear back. If you want to test the starter, take it out and bench test it with a battery or hot wire it in the car. But either way it sounds like you have quite a few electrical gremlins creeping in, coincidentally, all at once.
     
  23. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    Right, that's one of the usual suspects.

    I was thinking about my "rocking in gear" suggestion and realized that your car was in gear on the flatbed and the trip back to your friend's driveway would have rocked the car sufficiently.

    I use 2nd gear when I have to rock my car.

    Barry
     
  24. ready321now

    ready321now Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2013
    507
    New Jersey
    So how do I read the voltage on this Solenoid ? Do I have to have someone attempt to crank the car while I read the voltage or do I just turn the key forward and then test it?thank you in advance. Also I disconnected the power and the ground from the camera and the monitor. I am wondering if I have a bad starter or a bad alternator perhaps?
     
  25. ready321now

    ready321now Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2013
    507
    New Jersey
    Also...as far as bench testing things I do not have a lift . I suppose I need to go out and get some jack stands.
     

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