What does “Concours Condition” really mean?

My latest gripe about the way collector cars are described by some sellers is the over use of the word “concours” and sometimes “Pebble Beach quality”.

Has this car had a concours restoration? You decide.

The Meaning, Or Lack Of Meaning, Of "Concours Condition"
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My 2 cents.... after being to many concours for over 40 years. Concours is far different from "original".

Original means like it rolled out of the factory, which in many cases, for many cars of all makes, is below concours. Original is a car with all the imperfections, if any, of the original manufacturer.

An example is a '57 Chevy may be "concours", but far from original. A concours car has every nut and bolt perfect, screws perfectly aligned, wiring perfect, interior perfect (no loose threads or wrinkles in cloth or leather), paint, chrome and decals perfect. A car that is a trailer queen..no dirt, no dust nothing. Not even discoloration on exhaust manifold.

Having said that, yes, many dealers and auction houses overuse concours for complete pieces of junk.

 

I agree with Jag15. It is an overused term, but would indicate a perfect car, not necessarily a car that is the same as when it was factory new. It would also indicate a car that has not started to deteriorate as all restored cars do the moment they leave the shop...

Concours is nice to look at, but useless for a car you would actually drive.

I really like that green color. What car is it?


BT

 

Bizzi

 

Nice. It looks like a great GT car.


BT

 

Concours condition is a moving target, depending on the sanctioning body and/or class you're entered in.

 

The Meaning, Or Lack Of Meaning, Of "Concours Condition"

Jaguar 15, BT, Isobel, parkerfe

Did any of you read the article at the link above?

 

No big surprises here - whether you're selling Kias or Bizzarini's, you're still a "salesman", first and foremost. Imagine if it was the other way around, where the description read like an S-1 filing, filled with disclaimers and legalese.

"We cannot guarantee the paint was done to the absolute highest standard, and may not actually be the exact right color. Although all efforts have been made to reproduce the leather stitching, there is no guarantee that the pattern is exactly as it was prior to the reworking. The engine has been overhauled, and comes with no warranty, as the parts used, although made with more modern materials, do not have exactly the same characteristics as the original components."

 

Are you a lawyer?

 

I did read the link, and I agree with what is written. I think Concours is used far too often, and a more apt description would be "refinished and restyled to a contemporary standard". Nice car though!


BT

 

I read the link and, while I agree that the term is over-used, I believe that it can be argued that you have missed an important nuance of the ad. The restoration example you use claims that theirs is a 'concours-quality' restoration. As such, they're not really arguing that their resto is a concours effort. Rather, they're leveraging the over-restoration efforts (aka better-than-new-itis) that has become synonymous with winning concours efforts.

You're unquestionably right about the way in which concours restoration has evolved in recent years. However, given the increasing emphasis on "perfecting the imperfect", concours-quality can be seen as synonymous with 'work of the highest quality'. And, perhaps, lure the casual (but well-heeled) buyer into thinking that the effort is "true to the original" (or at least "true to the original spirit, but with better workmanship, materials, and more time and care")

 

The definition also states "true to the original manufacturer's intent", so one could argue that no manufacturer ever intended the paint to have imperfections, etc...


BT

 

RM says this is a "concours-quality restoration to its original specifications". It is certainly not restored to "original specifications"; not the exterior nor the interior, almost nothing is "original specifications". Even though it is beautiful.

 

I saw a number of concours-quality, but not the full "concours-quality to its original specifications". In that case, they're definitely wrong!

 

No, but I'm somewhat a fan of the Hyperbole that goes along with overhyping a car - I think it makes for an interesting marketplace, lol.

 

Yes, I read the article....I stand by my explanation. Concours is a higher standard than original....I can go to Ferrari of Newport Beach today and find a brand new "original" F-Car on the showroom floor that would not come close to a Wayne Obry MPI "concours" restoration....

Is a "one-off" car not "concours" because it didn't roll off the "original" manufacturers factory floor? Is Ralph Laurens Ville d' Este and Pebble Beach award winning Bugatti not concours because the body is riveted together rather than welded like other "original" Bugattis? Is an old Dusenburg not "concours" because it might have Carrillo rods? Many variations of concours depending on who is using it and for what event. Yes it is overused.

Most Pebble Beach winners are put together better than new from the factory...

 

BTW, a friend of mine is a Kia dealer who owns two Bizzarrinis!

 

I have never heard anyone say, "Concours is a higher standard than original".

The Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance web site says this,

"To contend in the Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance, an automobile must be a well preserved or accurately restored vehicle still quite capable of doing what it was meant to do—be driven."

And a dictionary definition of concours is,

"an exhibition or contest, esp. a parade of vintage or classic motor vehicles in which prizes are awarded for those in the best original condition."

I agree with your statement about Pebble Beach winners. A friend of mine is a long time judge at Pebble Beach and he tells me they value originally, yet I don't see that in the results especially the Best of Show award.

The questions you raise and the differences in opinions and differences in what an auction company or sales person means by "concours" is why I wrote this article.

Yet, I feel another article coming on this subject.

 

"I have never heard anyone say, "Concours is a higher standard than original"."

Well, you've heard it now...I have been going to "concours" events before going to one was the "it" thing to do. I first belonged to PCA-OC in 1970 ?

The Elegance at Hershey winner 2013---1938 Alfa 8C---It is "original", no doubt about it, unrestored but hardly "concours"....but it won the highest award at Hershey! It has won at Pebble also even though it is NOT "well preserved or accurately restored". Preserved yes, well preserved? Maybe...Stunning car either way....
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Just a few------

Dick Messer---past executive director of California's Petersen Automotive Museum.

"Still, many of the cars at this year's show (Pebble) will have that "better than new" appearance."

Wikipedia---Concours d' Elegnace--(from French meaning a competition of elegance, lit. "concourse of elegance", referring to the gathering of prestigious cars)

"Often the competitiveness of a Concours d'Elegance forces restoration of a vehicle to surpass 'mint' condition. Mint condition would be the state of the vehicle when it originally left the factory. Concours-quality cars often are given upholstery, paint, plating, and mechanical restoration to a standard far exceeding that of the car when it was new."

PCA-So Ariz---"What is a Concours d' Elegance"----

Inspection at a concours are considerably better than as-delivered from the showroom, even though some of the cars may be over fifty years old!

 

This Alfa has patina from age which is to be expected.

 

The times they are a changing. The era of over restored cars being the desirable norm is fading into the past. The new era is originality, preservation and correct yet minimal restoration rather than shiny, over the top restorations beyond anything that could have been done when the car was new.

This trend is being felt at the major auctions like this one: Now That Original Is More Valuable Than A Perfect Restoration There Are A Few Questions That Come To Mind

It will also be seen at major Concours d'Elegance events as well in the near future.

 

It is already being seen and it is a great change. Some of the most sought after awards are reserved for unrestored cars.

It's only original once.

 

A car truly is only original once--

I personally love the trend toward original, un-restored cars at events. A car that is driven regularly to keep the juices flowing, patina with age but spotless. Drivers leather seat worn accordingly......nothing better. I walk right by pimped out Panteras etc with full chrome engines...yuk. Not long ago, if you saw a matte black Lambo, you would think the owner only had enough money to primer the car before saving enough to paint it!

Great trend if the pendulum doesn't swing too far in favor of the other new trend..."as-is barn finds". Soon there will be experts on dust, dirt and rust placement.

 

Not sure about that. I always come back to the fact that back in 1936 or 1949 or whatever year it was made the car didn't have cracked leather, paint falling off or corroded fittings. So, yeah, that's the leather from 194x, but the color and pliancy are no longer correct, and you can't sit on it without damaging it. The paint was a different shade before it oxidized. The finish on the wood was probably darker. Etc. I.e., when you look at a barn find, you don't really know what the car looked like when it was made.

A time capsule car should be left alone. One that's rusting, leaking or disintegrating will ironically be closer to original if restored using correct methods and materials. My two pence.