F12 Availability

Seems like the V12's hold steady for a while and then fall of a cliff
Question is when will that happen on an F12

 

It's not just Ferraris. V12-powered cars of all sorts seem to depreciate more quickly than similar V8-powered cars from the same manufacturer. Look at Mercedes-Benz and the S/SL/CL65 AMGs versus the S/SL/CL63 AMGs. Or Aston Martin and the DB9 versus the Vantage V8.

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because the V12s command substantially more when new than the V8 models, but in the secondhand market, the 12-cyilnder cars aren't considered substantially more valuable than V8 models. (Secondhand buyers may not be as concerned with "prestige" as new car buyers are, for example).

So the value of the V12s and V8s pulls pretty much even after a few years - but since the V12s were more expensive to begin with, they have farther to fall, and thus suffer worse depreciation.

Just a theory.

 

I like both V8 and V12, but ask any of my non-carguy friends and to them a "real Ferrari" is the mid-engine one, almost no one of the sub-35 y.o. group lusts after the far more anonymous front-engined V12 models.

 

...they dont know what they're missing! but i agree, v12's are expensive. a 599 at $150k is the automtive bargain of a lifetime though for any lucky buyer

 

I think most people think a mid or rear engined car is more exotic, and thus, even though the group of people who can pay over 150k for a car is relatively small, the majority of that group wants the more exotic flavor if they are going with just one and that helps the V8s. JMHO.

 

IMO If Ferrari did a rear mid engine it would fare better in resale

 

You mean V12?

I'm glad they have the front-mid V12 though. These cars really are better suited to longer highway type drives.

I also think there is a bit more design freedom with the mid engine cars.

 

in competition with a $100k 612 and a $100k 575...and the sub $150k 599's coming in a couple of years. These cars are awesome and have depreciated a ton...good times for used v12 buyers!

 

I agree even today there are a number of dealers selling " used F12s "(with maybe 300 or 400 miles ) they are trying to sell for 475 to 499 I imagine 75 or more over list . I am sure people are buying them just not for me. I can wait to get an f12 all though if I get the availability to order one I will definitely take it.. and I have no doubt they will drop just like the 599 but I am really interested in the F12 I like the slightly smaller size and of course all that power just a awesome car..

 

Oh the F12 is amazing, no doubt. I think patience will be very helpful to anyone wanting one.

 

Their cars are getting more expensive all the time, thus I think you are mistaken.

 

Maintaining V12 costs more than maintaining V8.
On the second hand market, that counts.

 

As they get more expensive the pool of people who can afford them shrinks.

I think they are trying to increase profit margins on lower sales because the number of people who are potential clients is not expanding and they've hit an inflection point. 7k units/ year is still a pretty big number for them and the back off in units is not that meaningful. I don't think its so much about exclusivity but more about how its harder to find takers for that volume.

 

You have a point. Ferrari has been consistently raised their prices and they still sell.

 

But the gap to the secondary market is getting larger and hence the fast depreciation that happens once the primary market is exhausted.

 

Actually, in the U.S. anyway, retail prices for 2014 have barely changed from 2013; in fact, in some configurations of the F12 and the 458, the comparable car is actually slightly less expensive to buy new in 2014 than it was in 2013.

 

That is true. They really pushed the envelope with the pricing and now are making more options included. That is how Ferrari does discounts.

 

I was referring to the price jumps from one model to the next. Also, the long delivery periods prove high demand.

 

Test drove the FF at Ferrari Beverly Hills a month ago.

Salesman said if I wanted an F12 I could pick from 4 or 5 in the area that are owned but would be open to selling... Most in the mid 450k range.

 

LA area is probably a high bench mark for resale values.
I would wait to the launch of the 458 replacement which
will definitely make an impact on F12 demand hence opening
up allocation because of fall out in the wait list - IMO

 

Find that hard to believe. When you have tasted 12, very difficult to go back to 8. I think it is a different market.

 

When I was at the factory about a year ago, the F12 line was producing 8 cars per day.

My mechanic was just there and said they are no producing 6 V12's per day in line with "reduced production" that was announced some time ago.

Just doing the math: 6 cars per day (FF and F12) is 30 per week and thus 120 per month.

11 full months of production (assumption but at the high end) is 1320 V12's per year for the world.

Assume for sake of argument 60% are F-12's thus 792 say 800 for the world.

The US market for Ferrari is between 20 and 25%, using 25% that's 200 F12's per year for the US.

I don't think the new 458 will have any impact on the F12's and value.

Can;t wait for my F12. My 458 sold in 2 days thus Ferrari "less" for a few months.

 

LA for sure is an interesting local market for high-end cars, probably similar to Miami. However, it's a micro market compared to the macro market for Ferrari in North America (which is "fixed" supply) - hence why US sales/pricing and even usage patterns differ from Northern Europe, China, et al. I think the F12 will follow its own curve regardless of Cali T or 458M

I generally agree, the V12 GT vs. V8 Sports car vs. V8 GT are different target markets; however there are many of us that mix and match, we've been through a few "rotations" and have loved each car. Having said that, the F12 is really something special. (and yes, I've had a chance to drive the Speciale).

I think what you are describing is the dealer has customers who would flip their cars for a big upside. That's a probable indicator of "transient" customers and a definite indicator of short supply and high demand.

 

I was not talking about going back to a V-8.I was saying that once the replacement
of the 458 is announced the waiting list for F12 should shrink.Similar to when the
458 was launched and the 599 became readily available BTW I did go back to a V-8

 

Ferrariless for a few months, how can you possibly stand it?

Rick