Clutch wont engage | FerrariChat

Clutch wont engage

Discussion in '308/328' started by arctic74vette, May 19, 2014.

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  1. arctic74vette

    arctic74vette Rookie

    May 12, 2014
    24
    OK we have another problem. We got the car running and shifting and all that. When you start the car and let the clutch out in gear, nothing happens. Could the clutch be worn down that much, or is something broke??? Just trying to see if anybody has had this issue or anybody might know a likely cause before we tear the whole damn thing apart.
     
  2. tomd308

    tomd308 Karting

    Jun 10, 2006
    159
    gainesville florida
    Full Name:
    thomas dukas
    Check the clutch cable-it can break. Mine did. It's not a complicated fix.
     
  3. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,900
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    Mike 996
    If the cable was broken, the clutch should be "permanently" engaged. This sounds like the opposite problem - the clutch is permanently disengaged.

    There's almost no way a clutch disc can be so worn that it won't provide some drive though it may slip. I'd say there is a different problem. Any weird noises associated with trying to engage/disengage the clutch with the engine running? Does the pedal feel normal pressure-wise when you depress it and does it have the proper amount of travel and free play? IOW, does it FEEL like it's activating the clutch or does it feel disconnected?

    Was the clutch disassembled in the work that was done on the car?
     
  4. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 17, 2006
    4,078
    San Jose area
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    Brian Harper
    Are you SURE it is in gear? Double check the axles are in there?! :)

    Good news is that if it is a problem in the bell housing, getting to it will be easier than every other car you've had.

    I'm not sure I'd jump to this, but you can remove the transfer gear cover and see what the clutch output looks like and see what the gearbox input looks like. Then you could be sure which side the problem is on and go from there.
     
  5. arctic74vette

    arctic74vette Rookie

    May 12, 2014
    24

    No weird noises. The pedal feels normal. It's pretty stiff, but from what I have read, that's how they were from the factory. It feels like it's engaging, only nothing happens.


    Pretty damn sure it's in gear lol. My initial guess was that either the input shaft broke or that the gears in the transfer case are broke. One other note. I can put my finger in the fill hole in the transfer case and turn those gears with the one finger that will fit in that hole.

    Easier than anything I've ever worked on? I would much rather pull a trans from a old Chevelle or corvette than work on this. That's a 30-45 minute job on those old cars!! No special tools needed!
     
  6. johnhunt

    johnhunt Formula Junior

    Aug 9, 2013
    343
    Washington
    Full Name:
    John Hunt
    The clutch action isn't all that hard when working correctly. I found the TO bearing shaft needed some cleanup on mine and then the clutch was far easier. I could see how it could have gotten to the point of seizing the TO bearing. That would cause all your symptoms.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    20,013
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    You didn't put the disc in backwards did you?
     
  8. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 17, 2006
    4,078
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    No need to pull the trans or engine for this clutch. Just pull the cover off of the end of the engine. The clutch is right there. You get to spend some quality time in the left wheel well, but it isn't bad. I think I could get the clutch out in 30 minutes if I really wanted to. BUT, you will need ring nut sockets, so special tools are needed, either made or purchased.
     
  9. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
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    Feb 17, 2006
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    Sounds like the clutch. Engine compression should stop that if the clutch is engaged at all.

    If the trans is in gear can you still turn the top gear with your finger?
     
  10. arctic74vette

    arctic74vette Rookie

    May 12, 2014
    24

    It was already in. We haven't gotten that far into it yet.



    I saw birdmans write-up on it. It doesn't look that bad. Where do you get the tools and what all is needed?



    IIRC it was in neutral when I was able to spin that gear. I will try it tomorrow with it in gear and let you know the outcome.

    Thanks guys. Y'all have been a big help so far. Keep the responses coming, and I'll keep updating with pictures.

    Thanks again,
    Mike
     
  11. 911308

    911308 Karting

    Jul 27, 2010
    113
    Launceston
    Make sure the geometry of the clutch lever arm and helper spring are correct. I have heard of the arm passing over center and there for not returning to engage the clutch again.
    Compare your setup at the bell housing to the workshop manual

    Good luck
     
  12. arctic74vette

    arctic74vette Rookie

    May 12, 2014
    24
    Where can I purchase the workshop manual you are referring to?
     
  13. 911308

    911308 Karting

    Jul 27, 2010
    113
    Launceston
    Just download the manual you require. It has schematics of the clutch geometry and setup measurements.

    All Ferraris

    Cheers
     
  14. arctic74vette

    arctic74vette Rookie

    May 12, 2014
    24
    Wow that's pretty cool man thank you so much!
     
  15. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    Mike 996
    #15 mike996, May 20, 2014
    Last edited: May 20, 2014
    Just to clarify - was the clutch/tranny working properly before you did some work/had some work done on it and it is now NOT working or did you purchase the car and have now discovered this condition?

    If the latter, then there is no telling what could be going on/what a previous owner might have done and a thorough check is necessary. Heck, there may not be a clutch disc present! :)

    If the linkage is over centered, again, there would be essentially no pressure involved in pushing the clutch pedal - it would feel disconnected. Certainly, check everything related but I suspect you are going to need to pull the clutch cover and take a look to see what is going on.

    It's hard to imagine that the tranny itself the problem. The clutch disc could be broken - which I have seen several times (NOT on a Ferrari) but usually there is considerable and heavy rattle-ly noise as the splined section rotates while the rest of the disc does not.

    Being able to turn a gear with one finger reaching in through hole sounds suspiciously easy but I have never tried that so maybe it's OK. Is there lubricant in the gearbox?

    I guess a broken input/output shaft is possible but it doesn't seem likely; these trannys are not really stressed much by the engine power involved with these cars. I don't think you could break an input/output shaft under any oem-power conditions.

    Good luck!
     
  16. arctic74vette

    arctic74vette Rookie

    May 12, 2014
    24

    We bought the car in this condition. It was in an auction and was part of a guys collection and all the cars had been sitting for ten years. There is pressure in the clutch pedal so I'm pretty sure there is a clutch present. There isn't any noise/vibrations when the car is running. It has lubricant.

    If someone can tell me where to get the tools needed to year it apart that would be really helpful.

    Thanks again,
    Mike
     
  17. Pero

    Pero Formula Junior

    Apr 22, 2011
    825
    Sweden
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    Peter R
  18. johnhunt

    johnhunt Formula Junior

    Aug 9, 2013
    343
    Washington
    Full Name:
    John Hunt
    The tools needed?

    Metric socket socket
    A couple of wrenches
    Flat head screwdriver
    6 pack

    Tools from Sears and the beer from Safeway

    That should about do it


    Oh yeah and one special nut driver socket from hill engineering


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
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    #19 Brian Harper, May 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ricambi America (among others) sells the ring nut socket. It will be about $100.

    I made mine. I used the finest of sockets from Harbor Freight. I picket the one that fit over the nut, drilled two holes along the edge of the socket and welded in short rods. Not pretty, but it works. Four holes and rods would have been better but this worked.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    Hey I like that tool Brian, I wish I had made mine now :-/
     
  21. arctic74vette

    arctic74vette Rookie

    May 12, 2014
    24
    Well after reading about the clutch adjustment, it was waaaaaaay out. Got it back within reasonable spec and that did the trick. It engages/disengages properly now. BTW, in the workshop manual and in Birdmans write-up, it shows a reference hole in the clutch housing and the lever. I cleaned, looked, and probed for a long time and our very early '74 has no such thing.
     
  22. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,900
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    Mike 996
    May all problems be resolved so easily! :)
     
  23. Pero

    Pero Formula Junior

    Apr 22, 2011
    825
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Peter R
    I think it says that it was introduced "later", whatever that is, to make adjustment easier. What is the S/N of your car?
    /Peter
     
  24. arctic74vette

    arctic74vette Rookie

    May 12, 2014
    24
    08004
     
  25. Pero

    Pero Formula Junior

    Apr 22, 2011
    825
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Peter R
    Very early! According to Mathias Urban it is indeed 308 GT4 from 1974, so, I guess you have the right car. No more info than that in his book.

    /Peter
     

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