Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

+2
But we can now sit and enjoy the show of the P1 fanboys, haha
Btw, I like the P1 very much too. It's a great car, but the I hate the way it was marketed and the arrogance of McLaren!!!

 

+3.
And the P1 remains one of the uggliest car we ever seen.

 

Excellent analogy. +1

 

+ 100 very well put!

 

it is certainly a very very impressive car. Comparing MT's numbers for standard 918 and Autocar's numbers for P1, 918 is actually quicker to 60 (2.4 vs 2.8), 100 (5.1 vs 5.2), and 1/4 mile (10.0 vs 10.2). No surprise but Porsche has recorded better numbers for Weissach car. While Sport Auto, in windy conditions recorded a 186mph time for 918 all but equal to Autocar's time for P1. Although these magazine tests are not directly cross-reference applicable, you get the 'idea'. 918 is appreciably quicker to 60mph, but they are neck and neck after that. Many experts (particularly Sutt's and Harris and their infallible butt dyno's, 100% of Mac Loyalists, 99.9% F-chat experts) were adamant that 918 would not be anywhere near P1 after 60mph simply because it is waaaay too heavy and slightly less powerful. Wrong there.

It's also important to remember that the design goal and trickle-down goal of the 918 project is very different to P1 and LaF so raw performance of the Porsche is simply fantastic. All three new hypercars exist in my fantasy garage because of their respective talents and sheer desirability...a desirability rooted in their core design philosophies. lucky are those who are able to acquire and enjoy them.

 

+4

The P1 Clan appear to be losing their minds, and are nervous, shaky (watching 'the show of the P1 fanboys').

Peloton25 got driven away in relative shame and embarrassment recently, cause he couldn't give an inch, so posters kept pressing him, till he seemingly broke.

Mark Antar (who appears to be a good guy, if not loyal), apparently supported his cohorts exit/hibernation.

And Good Ole Sexton's, still putting up the good fight. He repeatedly references dubious data, when more truth/albeit disappointing data exist, which he completely ignores and mysteriously thinks is wrong, and/or mechanical problems with the P1.

And let's not even get into Chris Harris and Steve Sutcliffe, who were just flat out wrong for different reasons/intentions. CH: Because he couldn't get over the alleged weight, early quoted numbers, and purpose of the 918 vs it's competitors early claims and agenda's. And Sutcliffe, for his seemingly outright British pride at the expense of common sense and journalistic credibility.

You hate to criticize the P1 and it's devout followers like this. However, there really appears to be a concerted campaign by McLaren, it's almost religious true believers, and some British press to overstate this vehicle and hide (or ignore) it's obvious foibles or inconsistencies.

As an example: Is it just me, or the interior and graphics for the P1 appear so low grade for a $mil specialty vehicle/Hyper car (with all due respect to those who've purchased one)? However, I've never heard any British press ever comment on this (To the contrary, I've heard them actually complement it). Please don't say, 'it's a supercar, track performer', etc, in the P1 interiors defense. Other car makers have no problem making light weight cars with exciting or rich looking interiors. And the P1 will never be a track weapon [to begin with] as a $1mil Hybrid, especially vs other cheaper more reliable and mundane track offerings. The 918's interior and graphics alone, makes the P1 look like a low grade American or kit car interior, mind you the Porkers conveniences and/or luxuries (which the P1 inexplicably doesn't have, such as a simple glove compartment for starters). There's more. But we can save that for another time.

The P1 appears to be a both a misplaced track weapon and road car. It should be quite obvious once you get past all the bluster, false hyperbole and claims. However, you'll never hear any of the British press even hint at this, except for Hammond on Top Gear--when he was reviewing the 918 Spyder (and yes those night sparks and flames were real, and not CGI). I thought he gave a good description, and most transparent and complete comparison/comments of both vehicles so far (especially for a Brit). And it's not just because I agreed with him.

 

If I remember correctly, the 918 actually easily outperformed the P1's 0-186 mph numbers in Sports Auto, vs the P1's in Autocar.

The 918 posted a 19.1 avg. I think the P1's was 21+. And Sports Auto made a point to say the 918 posted a 18.1 earlier time, since it was windy in one direction. This is the type of stuff/data, that kills McLaren Fanboys. It's almost 'Brain Overload/they can't take it'.

Makes you wonder what the results would be if both cars switched locations/magazines?????

Hopefully, it will happen, particularly with customer cars.

 

I am more than willing to admit it when I am wrong in getting the fact straight and proving what I wrote. Lets be real though. My grype on this thread is that, though a lot of you are crying for facts to back up why we are saying such things, a lot of our responses and mine are based on our personal fanboy feelings. The fact is NONE of us have enough facts to put any of these debates to rest once and for all. We all deserve to state our own fanboy opinions without getting blasted for it like it's a serious crime. My personal HUMBLE fanboy opinion is this:

Judging with my naked eye, the Porsche looks like an amazing car. It handles brilliantly and is a lot of fun to watch being violently thrown around a circuit. The Laferrari "looks" even faster and looks like a lot of fun to drive as well. The P1 (my personal favorite) "looks" as fast as the other two as well, however, it is my personal favorite however because of the almost psychotic attention to detail and efficiency. I also love the extreme transformations it is capable of. It's amazing to me.

I would also like to state that though you are all right about some of SS and a lot of other reviewers in some of the ridiculous claims they make, their reviews still have some credibility to me. If we are honest, we aren't watching these reviews because we are looking to by one. It's because we want to see how our favorite brand stacks up against the rest and also to see if they delivered on there promises. So, using myself as an example, I am very disappointed that Mclaren have not released a time for the ring simply because I think it would have been amazing to see what a car with such an extreme design and capability could achieve there. I am also disappointed that they have not showed a video of the P1 being tested on what it was mainly designed to do in the first place which is being thrown around a world famous track to see what ridiculous time it can set. I still watch these reviews however because as a fan of Mclaren, the P1, and extreme cars all together, I love to see the P1's behavior as it slides though a long corner bouncing up and down and the drivers hands inside moving almost to fast to see while trying to keep it on then track. I love to see their heads snap forward when braking hard. It looks like an amazing drivers experience. It looks as extreme as the specs make it sound. I want to end by stating my honest personal view on the three:

918: Most luxurious of the three and seems to deliver an amazing driving experience. With that said, I think you all can agree that it is not as pure of a driving experience as the other two may be. It is the best car for those who want to experience the same level of performance as the other two but prefer prefer luxury over a pure drivers experience.

Laferrari: The Laferrari is the biggest dispointment because, as a brand that is looked at as one of the best (if not the best), it seems to lack the same attention to details as the Mac and the Porsche. Being extremely fast isn't good enough to me even though that sound is AMAZING! It does however deliver one what they said it was going to be and that is the most extreme Ferrari ever made. As Ferrari though, I shake the though that, they could have done better.

The P1: I love the attention to detail. As one of the best out their, they truly delivered in everything you would expect from one of the best in formula 1. It has an extreme design philosophy. It is very usable and for those like myself who find beauty in a car deigned to not just perform great on track but be the fastest period for a production car, it is gorgeous. When I first saw it I though, what the heck is this Mclaren? The pre release pics made it seem... prettier. Once I investigated the looks, I was just amazed at how well the performance elements of the car were integrated into the design. That is not easy by any means. It clearly wins (TO ME) because it is as fast, if not faster, than the other two but seems to be the most ambitious of the three in terms of design. And it does a great job at it as well.

I would love to see others write an example similar to what I wrote above and maybe we can decide for our selves who is the best. You know, for fun.

 

This is what happens when we attack each others opinions instead of being mature about the situation. This thread is by far the most hostile of all the other forums I have seen regarding all three of these machines. It's embarrassing. How about we stop taking about journalist mistakes and talk about what we like about our favorite car (not necessarily brand) and give detailed examples of why we thing one is not as good or out performs the other. Here, let me start. It is my opinion that the P1 (my personal favorite is better than the porsche and ferrari because it's attention to detail. It looks like a lot of fun to drive. Though it might not end up being as fast as some of the claims Mclaren made, I am still blown away at the effort they made. Because of that they get an A+ and will go down as one of the best example of what an extreme hyper should look like.

And you then say...

 

I can't speak for the others (Mclaren Fanboys) however, I question the results above because being the more track focused of the three, you have to treat it as such. Therefore, based on these results, it makes me wonder. Did they take the time to warm up the tires? How hard were they pushing? Even though I am a Mclaren fan, I would more than settle for even one of these reviews showing the same results if they were done at the same time in the same conditions. But they are not. Not even at the same location! Until they are all done like this, EVERYONE's response in fanboy opinion.

 

By your logic , no tests by any magazine mean anything .
These are the leading magazines in the world . Autocar and SA have had standardised texts for decades and are considered the best in the business . Both are done in a very similar way , thoroughly and with the full cooperation of the manufacturers involved . They take into account weather , location , wind etc etc .

I think the theory that one car is on another planet to the other (in sheer performance) has been utterly debunked . A few tenths here and there I can ignore for weather , surface and conditions but the general gist and direction of the results is indisputable .
Btw you can be sure the cars were in fine fettle , mclaren engineers were present for the tests and the drivers have done more tests than we have had hot dinners .

 

I for one have no problem with difference of opinion. That's life and makes the world go round. That's a good thing.

However, what we have many times here (and other places) are obstinate, misleading, almost religious, dogmatic, just flat out wrong posters. Let's not forget all the bluster McLaren and it's more rabid followers cast upon every Internet message board, and media outlet known to man.

How you feel the P1 looks is your opinion. I'm not a big fan of it's exterior. But I can see why some would like it. No big argument there (unless you wish). However, I feel it's interior is quite low grade, especially compared to the current offerings. Nonetheless, that's my opinion. I also feel the P1's not nearly as practical as some of it's most rabid fans think it will be. That's also my opinion, though it can be backed up with more facts. The same with it's lack of comparative conveniences as a road car.

However, Motor Trends recent P1 run WAS NOT a full, credible test. That's a fact. Motortrend stated such (though we know they keep comparing the numbers to the 918, cause that's all they have a the moment to do so). How can anyone argue against that (even the duplicitous Sexton had to eventually admit it himself, though he keeps making the same mistake). Maybe the P1's numbers will be better? Maybe it will be worse. That we don't know (though I could make a reason guess). However, the nature of the test was a FACT!

The 918's and P1's results with Motor Trend, Sports Auto and Autocar, are facts as well. It exist. Those were the numbers. Now, Sutcliffe and Harris, stating that the P1 is in another league than the 918, was their own opinions, proven (so far) embarrassingly/British Pridefully wrong!!

Lastly, my post was a response of Bokyo (sorry if I spelled it wrong) comment on watching McLaren's fan boys response to all the conflicting/bad news, with examples. That's all. Nothing personal.

 

Can you be more specific, please?

For me, a perfect supercar is, first of all:

- a well designed architecture, a well designed engine etc, mechanical nobility, beautiful bodywork supporting performance and driving emotions.



"Attention to detail" and a 3.8-litre twin-turbocharged V8 engine have no leverage towards LaFerrari's 65° naturally aspirated V12.

LF is my first choice as a dream car.
And I like the well engineered 918. The Porsche is a serious car, like a hyper mega super hybrid 911 Turbo s.
It's my second choice.

P1* is for sure interesting, but it's very uggly (for me), specially in road configuration. As a pure emotional car, I prefer the Ferrari*. Porsche* is something different.

*I drove none, but I sat in all three (stationnary)

 

So now you wish publications that have been testing for years to gear their test so the P1 can perform better??????????????????????????????

I'm not saying these things couldn't/didn't happen. And maybe you're correct (to cover all scenarios)?

Nonetheless, I'm sure McLaren did what you wished, as their own people were no doubt present, as WTDoom just mentioned (as Porsche did with their MT Test, and I'm assuming with Sports Auto, since I don't read German), since they were factory cars.

And for the record. The McLaren ONLY HAS ONE CREDIBLE PERFORMANCE TEST (which was Autocar)!

FYI: These are things that usually happen when you subject a car to stringent testing (and especially more of them). And one of the reasons why I doubt (though hope not) McLaren will subject their cars to more of this in the future? They've only had one.

 

I've noticed this too, and there is no other way of saying it - the P1 interior looks like s**t. The finish is poor as well, substantially inferior to the 918 and P1. I saw a customer P1 and was surprised how poorly the interior was finished. The screen looks very cheap as well, compared to the 918 dials and the resolution of the LaF system. The buttons feel low-grade, basically it's the same as comparing the [now] 650S interior to the 458 and 911. Not on par.

The latest video on the P1 was utterly ridiculous. The same clips and sequences recycled, and nothing new. No objective feedback or info. Compare it to what we learnt from the journos who drove LaF on the road, and you are left with nothing. A whole lot of jabbering of how proud he is that it's British and how much faster it is than a hatchback that probably costs the same as the rims for the car. I think it was one if his worst videoes ever, except those Aventador nonsense ones.

 

Why does sutcliffe say "the last test of this car " or some such in the new autocar video?
Thought tests of these things were just starting ?

 

what about the interior of an F40? We all love that, no?

 

PS: Ltitius

I guess it comes down to (and of course this is not you) this: McLaren, and it's fan boys have become as annoying as GTR ones, or uber testosterone infused teenagers in a keyboard argument, spouting repeated, definitive, though mostly untrue, unproven claims.

 

Surely that was another era and the car had another job description ? McLaren , Porsche and Ferrari are making claims of these hyperbrids usability , comfort etc as well as performance but I get what you mean .

 

The F40 didn't cost €1M when it was new and belongs in a completely different era. Today we expect different things in terms of comfort and quality. I would also say that arguably the F40 was also the first of it's breed, and thus didn't have to conform with any existing expectations.

Those who want a stripped out track weapon today can chose amongst a variety of cars.

 

You know, out of respect, I didn't respond to his "attention to detail" comment.

Actually, I think the P1 has the least attention to detail and purpose out of the three (to the shrieks and nail scratching to many of it's more ardent true believers).

Not only does it have an outsourced (tweaked in house) turbo engine, with a bolted on electrical motor: It's interior and graphics leave much be desired. Quite frankly, it's interior looks quite horrible and cartoon-ish for this price of car.

Lastly (from an engineering perspective), I think the P1 is both a misplaced road and track car, and this will be proven eventually. They appeared to sell out for speed/track performance, however it's not as fast as they claimed (especially over the competition), and it will never be used as a chosen track weapon, where it may not even be superior to the competition. We'll just have to see on the latter one, as more test and comparisons are produced.

 

Amen Brother!!

Sadly, it's just the THRUTH (the P1's low grade interior and graphics, if I can say that word), in light of it's comfort and convenience claims. However, I feel it's interior is even low grade for a track focused road car. It just looks bad for $1 mil. It would be different, if it was the outright track king (with a much better, long lasting battery) that McLaren and it's legions wanted it to be. However (until proven otherwise), it's not!

Sorry.

 

I must admit "attention to detail" is not the term I took away from seeing quite a few p1s , being driven in and driving the p1 . I will say the car I drove was better finished than the cars I was shown and passengers in . The fit and finish of the car and the fact that it was not as bespoke as I expected for the cost were some of the reasons I passed on the p1.

 

Good points (WT Doom, I think did as well).

It was just a different era. Even the more luxuriously 959 wasn't much to write home about, outside the seats, and maybe the dashboard.

At the time, German and Performance cars just weren't outright luxurious, or used exotic looking materials in their interiors (if they were performance based) as many do today.

However, times have and changed. And many recent Uber Sports Cars (or just regular +$100,000 ones), have special, exciting, luxurious, or quality interiors, materials and graphics (such as many Ferrari's, Pagani's, Audi's R8, 10's, Porsche's, Mercedes, etc.)

The P1 appears not to be one of them; especially at $mil.

 

This is what CAR Magazine thinks:

"LaFerrari. On road and track in the 950bhp hypercar that humbles Enzo, P1 & 918 in one hit"
Digital preview of the new issue of CAR magazine Car Magazine

Plus:
ISSUU - 623 CAR June 2014 by CAR magazine