Which is the better investment: 308 or 328?

Makes me "about 15 years older than you", Rob. As I have just written this morning in another post, I suspect the car responsible for the broad public interest in Ferraris (even if it is "not quite a Ferrari"...) in Europe is 00810.
00810 is a "Rosso Dino" over Black Leather 246 Dino GT that was driven by Tony Curtiss (aka Danny Wilde) in "The Persuaders". The show was ENORMOUSLY popular in Europe during the seventies, and following your reasoning, and the rises in Dino prices, IF (this is a big "if") the Dino prices have been pushed by the wealth acquired by "the Persuaders'" generation, the 3x8 might be a good investment in the future...(but: will it be the same future?)
Somehow, I doubt it; the rise in Dino prices began about 15 years ago: in 2001 a 246 GT was more or less 60.000 euros, a GTS, more or less 80.000; multiply this by, well, let's say three to four today...the rise for the 3x8, should there will be one, should already have started.
Again, I don't care, even if the subject of the topic is "3x8 as an investment"; my cars are just waiting to be driven. Now, if that rain could cease just for one day...

Rgds

 

Interesting discussion.

"The Persuaders" was shown on this island in the Pacific, Nerofer. I saw a Dino for the first time there. I bought the boxed DVD set some years ago and watch it from time to time to remind me of what I saw when I was young. In fact, I watched the one episode again the other night. I do not think though that it influenced my buying a Dino. In my choice of cars, magazines such as Road & Track (an excellent magazine up the 70s) influenced me more. From what I sense from the 206/246 forum, my experience seems typical of the Dino owner. One of the enthusiasts there is a young fellow, but extremely knowledgeable about the model. He would not have seen The Persiaders.

I was, and at heart remain, primarily a Lotus man, drawn by the focus of the marque. But the Dino was always on my list too for what it was.

Who knows where the market will head? The anguish by some in the other thread over the disparity between Dino and 308/328 prices is a puzzle to me. It only makes sense if one wants to buy a Dino (which I can understand) or to sell his 308/328 (which I can't understand). As I said, rising market prices aren't good for the enthusiast. Sure, you can get more money from your car, but the car you were aiming to buy is going to be even farther from your reach.

Best,

Andres

By the way Nerofer, the Aston Martin used by Brett Sinclair (Roger Moore) in the Persuaders fetched a good price recently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/10838886/Roger-Moores-Aston-Martin-from-The-Persuaders-fetches-world-record-533000.html

 

Andres,

Thanks for your post from your “island in the Pacific” (Which one?).
What “the Persuaders” did achieve in Europe was to put the Dino firmly into most teenagers mind, even those who have no previous knowledge of the brand and the car. But of course those who loved cars already knew that the Dino was a gem, because it has already been said by every car magazine in Europe.
So for those who loved cars, “the Persuaders” didn’t brought any new information about the car, except the chance to see the “Dino” in action; it was a very, very rare automobile in most places in the seventies, believe me. I was not living in Paris at the time, and the first Dino I saw “in the flesh” was in 1978, six years after the serie was aired on TV.
But after the TV diffusions, and numerous re-diffusions of the Serie, almost everyone of my age bracket, including those who had zero interest in cars, knew that: “Ferrari was an Italian brand of automobiles manufacturing very pretty sports cars that make a nice noise, and are the Playboys’s favorite choice” (or something to that purpose).

So the serie did certainly not influence the choice of those already seriously interested in automobiles, but it certainly made lots of other people aware of that car. I think that its rise in value of the last twelve years has been at least partly explained by the fact that the car is known to many people: it is a very popular car. I do also believe that the rise is now at least partially “artificially” sustained by at least some people who have no serious interest in cars: being more or less in the financial business, I can attest that I have heard collegues who are investing advisors and know nothing about cars saying “we should keep an eye on that Dino”.
Of course this is bad for those who love cars: at about 250 to 300.000 euros for a Dino, there is no way I would buy one; even if by selling my two 328s and using my pension savings plan I guess I could manage it: because I would never take the risk to drive a 300.000 euros car as, and where, I drive a 50.000 euro one.

In fact, as I have already said, I don’t mind where the market for 308/328 is going; but it interests me from a curiosity point of view. I don’t believe that it will parallel what we have seen for the Dino; as the legal warning for selling stocks says: “past performance do not guarantee those of the future”.
I am rather mildly tired of hearing people saying “the 308 will be the new Dino” or “will the 308 be the new Dino?”; because do we really need the 308/328 being another Dino? As you have pointed out, of course we don’t…
I remain curious of where the market is going, even if I am convinced that in ten years’ time, the legal restrictions on the use of our cars, and their rejection by the general public will make these almost impossible to use. And if I can’t drive them, then I have no interest in keeping them. This is why I think it is important to enjoy them now, and to drive them now; as for the rest, we will see in due time.
Que sera, sera.

Rgds

 

"...even if I am convinced that in ten years’ time, the legal restrictions on the use of our cars, and their rejection by the general public will make these almost impossible to use. And if I can’t drive them, then I have no interest in keeping them."

+1

 

I disagree with the post-'79 used car theory- yes, Ferrari has higher production numbers (still not high though by comparison, right?), but if you factor in exponential global population growth (from ~4.5B people to ~7.1B today) and the ever-expanding upper-middle class in emerging economies, there are/will be A LOT more potential buyers, and they are aren't making any more 1980-89 3X8's...

 

You are right Nerofer, and I agree with you entirely. The Persuaders was set in the South of France, so a Dino in that setting was pretty heady stuff for me, a young car enthusiast so far away. As an aside, I also loved the earlier series The Avengers, with Diana Rigg in her Lotus Élan. I did buy an Élan, too, and still have it, so perhaps those TV shows influenced me after all.

Regards,

Andres

 

"and the ever-expanding upper-middle class in emerging economies, there are/will be A LOT more potential buyers, and they are aren't making any more 1980-89 3X8's…"

IMO, the general upper-middle class people of the "emerging" sort are not going to be interested at all in old sports cars; if they are of the "sport's car" persuasion, they will be interested in CURRENT sports cars that the currently "cool" people (whoever they are seen to be) drive. Whoever those "cool" people are, I doubt any of them are driving 3x8s.

 

I'll make sure whoever inherits my 308 post on here what they sold it for, hopefully at least 45 years from now.

 

And there is also a lot of nostalgia today in those views of the french riviera, as it was filmed just before "they" drowned the whole beautiful coast of said french riviera under mountains of concrete, this to build hideous blocks of appartments from one extremity to the other, from Perpignan to Menton.
This without even mentioning traffic on those roads today: should you want to do today the car chase they did in the opening of the first episode on the same roads, you would be much quicker riding a bycyle...
To think that the only part the state was able to freeze and protect "as it was in the past" is only 4 miles long...

Rgds

 

Better 328

 

I tend to agree with the Ferrari Market Letter that said any Ferrari chassis lower than 25000 will be a collector car and cross the $1 million mark at some point. All the rest (excluding special production models) will end up just nice, used Ferraris.

Thus, my prediction is that in five years the early 308s will begin to rise substantially.

 

Until everyone has one, and the then want to be differentiated.

You are assuming, everyone will want the latest and greatest all the time, a small % will be into muscle cars, a small % will be into other exotics. and on and on for the car market, just like the price of caviar will increase as well

 

Not every kids want the latest trendy current cars. My boy who is working on his PhD wants my '75 Land cruiser which is much older than him. My girl who is in her medical school loves my 328 and the car is also older than her. Not all kids want to be the same as other kids.

 

So if 3x8s is your thing get one now when they are still affordable...there are nay sayers for everything life

 

Buy what you love and you'll never go wrong.

 

"... I say the retro interior of the 308 will ultimately prevail and that 308s will some day be worth 50% more than a comparable 328."

Back to the question- The external differences between the 308 and 328 are fairly few, and not- to my thinking- enough to separate them when considering so-called "investment value". Slightly different front end appearance (the vent panels), the bumpers, the door "handles", not much else. As for the "retro" appearance of the interior, it's not that much different, except for the toggle-like console switches and slightly different door panels. Again not the same but certainly not enough difference to write home about. Then there are some more fundamental differences: the steel portions of the body- most 308's had not much rustproofing, where the very last 308's and all 328's were galvanized. The pre-QV motors had certain issues and of course less power; for those who like carburetors along with their attendant maintenance issues, fine, but the QV motors are certainly less problematic, with a noticeable increase in power. Also the more normal tire sizes for the 328's make a big difference when tire shopping, both in availability and price, by a very wide margin.

So what does it add up to? Probably personal taste as well as finding the right car at the right price. Current maintenance is not a small issue, it's a big one, as catching up to seriously deferred maintenance can be as large portion of the car's real cost. A 30K major service- at somewhere between 5K and 7K might only be the start! Not to mention that such a service is recommended to take place at 5 year intervals, regardless of mileage. Personally I think that the overall lack of really qualified Ferrari mechanics/shops (except in certain well-populated areas), compared to what's available for other marques, together with the outstandingly overpriced cost of even minor parts, not to mention major ones- is easily holding the market back for the so-called "affordable" Ferraris, meaning the 3X8 series. Just my observation, though; no actual data to support this idea.

It may well be that time is running out, with all the gov't mandates for "modern" cars- safety features, fuel economy (or even type of fuel available), possible mandated computer/gov't override controls at some point (1984 is with us???), hugely increased number of vehicles on the road, and so on, for the ability to enjoy fast sports cars. One cannot help but notice the seemingly insane prices that "muscle cars" are commanding these days; of course the really rare, really once expensive European sports & exotic cars are going up at auctions as well. Several hundred thousand dollars for American cars that once sold for way less than 5K? Well, there's the latest sale of a 275/4 GTS NART Spider for 27.5 million, but that's a helluva exception, I think.

All this to answer "which will appreciate more, the 308 or 328"?

To me it's irrelevant. "Investors" have spoiled ownership of nice cars for the vast majority of us, hoping to make more than a few bucks. The only real positive effect that I can see is that older "collectible" cars are being preserved or restored, rather than being scrapped, as was common not so many years ago. So if anyone wants to own one of these cars for the driving experience, not bragging rights or investment potential, now's the time. Buy what you like & can afford; don't worry about the future, we can't control it nor can we really predict it either.

BTW I used to own & race Elans, as well... but the 328 GTS I now have is in a different class. I should have bought one sooner, but then again, better late than never.

Cheers, and sorry for the lengthy writeup. Couldn't help it!
Rich

 

Sorry, but this is just wrong. Compare a '76 to '89 and you will see a vastly different look/style and justifiably so as they were built 14 years apart.

 

Truer words have never been spoken !

 

Gosh Rob, you could actually be right on this. See that one below? I'm not sure they will get the 85.000 euros they are asking for it, but such an asking price would have seen "ludicrous" only a year before. And I know of a red one at 100.000 euros, too!

B2B MOTORS

Rgds

 

That mint yellow '89 GTS is beautiful!!! 85000 Euro = $115772.55 United States Dollar, I know the price of these late '89 is higher now but this is incredible, maybe in 10 years they will be out of reach for many

 

Nice! A Rosso Corsa respray and it would be perfect!!!!!





























Just kidding.
Beautiful car...

 

Agreed.

I paid for my first Ferrari.

The stock market is buying my next Ferrari.

 

I've got a red one also, Mike...only it is a bit more expensive: 11.000 kms on the odo (about 7.000 miles) and asking price is 100.000 euros. It is a '89 also.

Offre FERRARI 328 GTS 3.2 L occasion en vente à Gaillac (81)

Rgds

 

Well, to me "retro" might involve a lot of wood paneling, chrome, and so on. It's all in the eye of the beholder, of course. The radio doesn't count..to me.

Cheers,
Rich

 

My money is on early 308 (literally). I think the interior is nicer looking and the front of a 328 just reminds me of a early 90's GM. However the biggest difference carbs to injection. In my mind the the switch from carbs is the line in the sand between classic and modern.

But what do I know, i don't even own a Ferrari.....yet.